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From Chris Olivier <cjolivie...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: users@mxnet
Date Thu, 21 Jun 2018 01:37:58 GMT
+1


On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 8:43 AM Steffen Rochel <steffenrochel@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I had a discussion yesterday with Jun Wu (wujun.nju@gmail.com) to get a
> better understanding about the concerns raised, that users might get
> confused and maintenance efforts.
> I agree with Jim that building and fostering the community is important.
> First of all, I suggest we should be open minded and not make claims that
> we have a good understanding of user preferences. We might have insights
> about preferences of current users (which I also would question as we
> sampled only a small set), but we certainly don't have insight about the
> preferences of new users we are trying to attract.
> In such situation it might be better to run an experiment, offer choices
> and collect real feedback - lets be customer focussed.
> My suggestion is to establish a user@ list and support the list with a
> volunteer subset of contributors and committers to minimize the maintenance
> impact on the whole community.
> After a reasonable time like 6 months we can evaluate the adoption of user@
> and effort to support and can make an informed, data driven decision how to
> proceed.
>
> I recommend to create the user@ list and call for volunteers to support
> the
> list.
>
> Regards,
> Steffen
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 8:10 AM Hagay Lupesko <lupesko@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Jim,
> >
> > Earlier on the thread you suggested to clarify and expand on the usage
> of a
> > user@ mailing list and how it is useful for a project.
> >
> > It may be helpful for the community to learn a bit more about it. Could
> you
> > expand and/or share relevant links and examples?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Hagay
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 07:31 Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Just so we are clear: building and fostering a community takes effort.
> > > Either it is something important to the project, or it's not.
> > >
> > > My assumption is that It Is.
> > >
> > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 8:59 PM, YiZhi Liu <eazhi.liu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am personally not a big fan of mailing list but agree with Thomas
> > > > that we may get extra users, which worth a try.
> > > > On the other hand, I also have concern that we do not have a
> community
> > > > big enough to support multiple forums. If people asked questions but
> > > > got no response, that can be worse than not having the mailing list
> at
> > > > all.
> > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:46 PM Thomas DELTEIL
> > > > <thomas.delteil1@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I was actually the one stating that we didn't need a user mailing
> list
> > > >> during the Seattle meetup, given all the reasons already exposed
> > above.
> > > >>
> > > >> However given what proponents of a mailing list said, I personally
> > > wouldn't
> > > >> mind adding a new channel as a user mailing list, and monitoring it.
> > > There
> > > >> seems to be a subset of users, used to apache projects, that
> wouldn't
> > > use
> > > >> the forum but would use a mailing list. Though I think it is not as
> > > >> feature-rich as the forum and there is a risk of dilution of
> > > information.
> > > >> It is more about reaching those extra users. If we see a dilution
of
> > > >> traffic on the forum towards the mailing list (~currently 100
> > > posts/week)
> > > >> then maybe we can reconsider our assumptions?
> > > >>
> > > >> All the best,
> > > >>
> > > >> Thomas Delteil
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 17:30 Pedro Larroy <
> > pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> I agree with Tianqi, Eric and others. We shouldn't dilute the
> > community
> > > >>> with another forum. Disqus is already working and has healthy
> > > >>> participation, you can get an email digest if you so desire.
> > > Subscribing to
> > > >>> a mailing list to get a question answered is quite a heavyweight
> > > investment
> > > >>> for many people and users who might not have the resources nor
> mental
> > > >>> bandwidth to receive more email volume in their inboxes.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:19 AM Tianqi Chen <
> > tqchen@cs.washington.edu
> > > >
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication
> is
> > > that
> > > >>>> users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people
> have
> > to
> > > >>>> watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum
and
> many
> > > users
> > > >>>> prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Tianqi
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and
> low-overhead
> > > way
> > > >>> of
> > > >>>>> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra
level of
> > > >>> support.
> > > >>>>> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the
case, I
> > would
> > > >>>>> recommend we create the list.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen <
> > tqchen@cs.washington.edu
> > > >
> > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community
users
> > > prefers
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>>> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Tianqi
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández
<
> > > wikier@apache.org
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community?
I really hope
> we
> > > are
> > > >>>>>>> thinking a bit beyond that...
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen <
> > tqchen@cs.washington.edu>
> > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> I remember last time during the mxnet meetup
in Seattle, we
> did
> > a
> > > >>>>> survey,
> > > >>>>>>>> and most users preferred the current discuss
forum. So I would
> > say
> > > >>> we
> > > >>>>>>> stick
> > > >>>>>>>> with that given the user community prefers
that
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Tianqi
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández
<
> > > >>> wikier@apache.org
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Then, if everybody agree, let's request
the mailing list
> > creation
> > > >>> to
> > > >>>>>>>> INFRA
> > > >>>>>>>>> ;-)
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers
are also
> > > >>> subscribed
> > > >>>>>>>> there,
> > > >>>>>>>>> since they may be the most informed people
for answering
> users'
> > > >>>>>>>> questions.
> > > >>>>>>>>> But the topics discussed there may not
be of the interest for
> > > pure
> > > >>>>>>>>> development purposes. Some discussions
will jump from users@
> > to
> > > >>>> dev@,
> > > >>>>>>>> but
> > > >>>>>>>>> at a different level. So I wouldn't forward
one mailing list
> to
> > > >>> the
> > > >>>>>>>> other.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu
> > > >>>>>>>>> <marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com.invalid>
wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> I think nobody was opposed to it in
the past, right?
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> I'd propose that all emails automatically
get copied to dev@
> > to
> > > >>>>>>> ensure
> > > >>>>>>>>>> high
> > > >>>>>>>>>> visibility initially. What do you
think?
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian <ssc@apache.org> schrieb
am Fr., 15. Juni 2018,
> > > 20:51:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> I have already proposed this many
times in the past and
> would
> > > >>>>>>>> strongly
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> encourage it.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> -s
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández
wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> is there any good reason why
the podling doesn't have a
> > users@
> > > >>>>>>>>> mailing
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> list
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> yet?
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Honestly speaking, I'm not
a big fan of the other tools
> the
> > > >>>>>>> podling
> > > >>>>>>>>> is
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> using. Slack and Web forums
a cool tools, and I used them
> a
> > > lot
> > > >>>>>>> in
> > > >>>>>>>>>> other
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> contexts. But when it comes
to transparency and community,
> > > >>>>>>> mailing
> > > >>>>>>>>>> lists
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> play a crucial role in the
Apache Way.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Users are the most important
asset a project can have.
> Even
> > > >>> more
> > > >>>>>>>> than
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> developers, believe me. So
I think it's time to create a
> > > users@
> > > >>>>>>>>>> mailing
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> list for to helping MXNet
grow its community beyong the
> core
> > > >>>>>>> team.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Yizhi Liu
> > > > DMLC member
> > > > Amazon Web Services
> > > > Vancouver, Canada
> > >
> > >
> >
>

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