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From Jim Jagielski <...@jaguNET.com>
Subject Re: users@mxnet
Date Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:31:03 GMT
Just so we are clear: building and fostering a community takes effort. Either it is something
important to the project, or it's not.

My assumption is that It Is.

> On Jun 18, 2018, at 8:59 PM, YiZhi Liu <eazhi.liu@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I am personally not a big fan of mailing list but agree with Thomas
> that we may get extra users, which worth a try.
> On the other hand, I also have concern that we do not have a community
> big enough to support multiple forums. If people asked questions but
> got no response, that can be worse than not having the mailing list at
> all.
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:46 PM Thomas DELTEIL
> <thomas.delteil1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I was actually the one stating that we didn't need a user mailing list
>> during the Seattle meetup, given all the reasons already exposed above.
>> 
>> However given what proponents of a mailing list said, I personally wouldn't
>> mind adding a new channel as a user mailing list, and monitoring it. There
>> seems to be a subset of users, used to apache projects, that wouldn't use
>> the forum but would use a mailing list. Though I think it is not as
>> feature-rich as the forum and there is a risk of dilution of information.
>> It is more about reaching those extra users. If we see a dilution of
>> traffic on the forum towards the mailing list (~currently 100 posts/week)
>> then maybe we can reconsider our assumptions?
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Thomas Delteil
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 17:30 Pedro Larroy <pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I agree with Tianqi, Eric and others. We shouldn't dilute the community
>>> with another forum. Disqus is already working and has healthy
>>> participation, you can get an email digest if you so desire. Subscribing to
>>> a mailing list to get a question answered is quite a heavyweight investment
>>> for many people and users who might not have the resources nor mental
>>> bandwidth to receive more email volume in their inboxes.
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:19 AM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@cs.washington.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication is that
>>>> users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have to
>>>> watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many users
>>>> prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring
>>>> 
>>>> Tianqi
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead way
>>> of
>>>>> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of
>>> support.
>>>>> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would
>>>>> recommend we create the list.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen <tqchen@cs.washington.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users prefers
>>>> the
>>>>>> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Tianqi
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández <wikier@apache.org
>>>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope
we are
>>>>>>> thinking a bit beyond that...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen <tqchen@cs.washington.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle,
we did a
>>>>> survey,
>>>>>>>> and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I
would say
>>> we
>>>>>>> stick
>>>>>>>> with that given the user community prefers that
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Tianqi
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández <
>>> wikier@apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list
creation
>>> to
>>>>>>>> INFRA
>>>>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also
>>> subscribed
>>>>>>>> there,
>>>>>>>>> since they may be the most informed people for answering
users'
>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>> But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest
for pure
>>>>>>>>> development purposes. Some discussions will jump from
users@ to
>>>> dev@,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing
list to
>>> the
>>>>>>>> other.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu
>>>>>>>>> <marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied
to dev@ to
>>>>>>> ensure
>>>>>>>>>> high
>>>>>>>>>> visibility initially. What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian <ssc@apache.org> schrieb am Fr.,
15. Juni 2018, 20:51:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I have already proposed this many times in the
past and would
>>>>>>>> strongly
>>>>>>>>>>> encourage it.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -s
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> is there any good reason why the podling
doesn't have a users@
>>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>> yet?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the
other tools the
>>>>>>> podling
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools,
and I used them a lot
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>> contexts. But when it comes to transparency
and community,
>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>> lists
>>>>>>>>>>>> play a crucial role in the Apache Way.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users are the most important asset a project
can have. Even
>>> more
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>> developers, believe me. So I think it's time
to create a users@
>>>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>> list for to helping MXNet grow its community
beyong the core
>>>>>>> team.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Yizhi Liu
> DMLC member
> Amazon Web Services
> Vancouver, Canada


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