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From Naveen Swamy <mnnav...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [RESULT][VOTE] tracking code changes with JIRA by associating pull requests
Date Thu, 08 Mar 2018 19:26:11 GMT
Whether to use Jira or not is a moot point now,  I suggest lets discuss how
to use Github/Jira effectively, to make it easy for contributors(new and
veterans). Let us use it for 6 months or so and collect feedback, people
who don't find it useful can start another VOTE.


On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Chris Olivier <cjolivier01@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Oh my God, no...
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Anirudh <anirudh2290@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > There should be an easy way to translate all the existing github issues
> > into work items in JIRA(Considering the work on labelling that is done
> for
> > github issues).
> > Does the JIRA bot handle this ?
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Chris Olivier <cjolivier01@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Anyone can create a backlog item/JIRA ticket.
> > >
> > > Obvious cases might include:
> > >
> > > * Someone thinks of a task and (optionally) wants to develop it
> > themselves,
> > > so they create a backlog item and assign it to themself, putting it
> into
> > > "in progress" mode.
> > > * Someone dreams up a large feature and wants to create an epic with 30
> > > subtasks, so they create the epic and its subtasks (grooming)
> > > * Someone wants to just pick up a random pre-existing backlog item to
> > work
> > > on
> > >
> > > I do think that backlog items should be restricted to actual work items
> > and
> > > not general issue reporting, but I'm certainly open to how other Apache
> > > projects like Spark do that.  So far it seems like github issues do a
> > > pretty good job of that.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Sheng Zha <szha.pvg@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Good points on keeping a public backlog. Should we expect new
> > > contributors
> > > > to create such backlog items? Or who should own the responsibility of
> > > > creating backlog items?
> > > >
> > > > - Sent by my thumb
> > > >
> > > > > On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Nan Zhu <zhunanmcgill@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > just giving an example about Chris's opinion (how JIRA would help
> for
> > > > more
> > > > > new users)
> > > > >
> > > > > I can see Spark 2.4 is highly possible to include the nested column
> > > > pruning
> > > > > in parquet file from its JIRA (
> > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SPARK-4502)
> > > > >
> > > > > it's hard for me to have any source to get the similar expectation
> > for
> > > > MXNET
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > >
> > > > > Nan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 10:03 AM, Chris Olivier <
> > cjolivier01@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Almost all Apache projects use JIRA.  It's been proven to work
in
> > > > >> open-source.
> > > > >> Having backlog/development process public hopefully will help
> > > adoption.
> > > > >> Right now, what new users?  Adoption is very slow, so I think
it's
> > > hard
> > > > to
> > > > >> argue that the current way of doing things is effective.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Sheng Zha <szha.pvg@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Cool. Feel free to propose a change to the PR template.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> How would JIRA be less daunting to new users?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -sz
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 9:25 AM, Chris Olivier <
> cjolivier01@gmail.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> My $0.02 about the PR template.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I think it's a good idea.  I think (just my opinion)
is that the
> > > > >> adoption
> > > > >>>> is low because it started out too big and daunting. 
It may get
> > more
> > > > >>>> adoption if we started a little smaller -- with maybe
two
> > > checkboxes"
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>>> also didn't have a line at the top stating "Description",
> because
> > > that
> > > > >>> feel
> > > > >>>> skind of awkward and github inserts extended label info
above it
> > > > >>> sometimes.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Just an idea.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:13 AM, Sheng Zha <szha.pvg@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> The PR template is designed for that and its poor
adoption is
> > > causing
> > > > >>> the
> > > > >>>>> same issue of missing information in PRs. My concern
of using
> > JIRA
> > > is
> > > > >>> that
> > > > >>>>> more overhead would deter contribution and worsen
the quality
> of
> > > > >>>>> description.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> -sz
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 8:49 AM, Nan Zhu <zhunanmcgill@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> +1 on both suggestions
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> a bit concern is on the quality of JIRA which
is created
> > > > >> automatically
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> I can see a lot of PRs are not described comprehensively,
if
> we
> > > just
> > > > >>> post
> > > > >>>>>> what in description to JIRA, it's error-propagating
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> but the quality of JIRA is a big topic worth
more discussions
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:06 AM, Marco de Abreu
<
> > > > >>>>> marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com
> > > > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Would it be possible to automatically create
JIRA tickets
> when
> > a
> > > > >>> GitHub
> > > > >>>>>>> issue is being created? We could then mirror
all comments the
> > > same
> > > > >> way
> > > > >>>>> it's
> > > > >>>>>>> happening in https://issues.apache.org/
> > > jira/projects/MXNET/issues/
> > > > >>>>> MXNET-42
> > > > >>>>>>> but make sure that the bot works in both
ways. A comment on
> > > GitHub
> > > > >>>>> would be
> > > > >>>>>>> copied to JIRA and a JIRA comment to GitHub.
I think this
> would
> > > be
> > > > >>> good
> > > > >>>>> as
> > > > >>>>>>> a first step to start integration.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> -Marco
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:08 PM, Marco de
Abreu <
> > > > >>>>>>> marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com
> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> I also see this as a big advantage in
terms of
> transparency. I
> > > > >>>>> personally
> > > > >>>>>>>> will try to move away from any company
internal issue
> trackers
> > > > >>> (except
> > > > >>>>>>> for
> > > > >>>>>>>> confidential cases) and instead work
on Jira that is being
> > > managed
> > > > >> by
> > > > >>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>> community. This allows everybody to see
what is being worked
> > on
> > > > and
> > > > >>>>> gives
> > > > >>>>>>>> them the possibility to chime with ideas
or suggestions.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> In my opinion, this obsoletes TT and
SIM to a big extent.
> It's
> > > up
> > > > >> to
> > > > >>>>> you
> > > > >>>>>>>> if you maintain multiple issue trackers
or stick to one. If
> > > > anybody
> > > > >>>>> has a
> > > > >>>>>>>> (non-confidential) issue that's related
to my work on CI, I
> > ask
> > > > >> them
> > > > >>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>> create a GitHub issue instead of a company
internal ticket
> - I
> > > > >> invite
> > > > >>>>>>>> everybody to do the same.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> MXNet is an open source project and moving
away from company
> > > > >> internal
> > > > >>>>>>>> trackers towards community driven ones
is the next logical
> > step
> > > in
> > > > >> my
> > > > >>>>>>>> opinion. At the moment, everybody is
working on their own
> and
> > > it's
> > > > >>> hard
> > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>> see for external people (or even developer
who are not part
> of
> > > the
> > > > >>> same
> > > > >>>>>>>> team) what we're actually working on.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> -Marco
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 7:48 PM, Naveen
Swamy <
> > > mnnaveen@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> I am +1 for using JIRA. Managing
bigger projects within
> MXNet
> > > on
> > > > >>> JIRA
> > > > >>>>>>>>> brings openness to the project. MXNet
Users and the
> > > contributors
> > > > >>> also
> > > > >>>>>>> get
> > > > >>>>>>>>> a
> > > > >>>>>>>>> sense of where the project is heading.
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Bigger Tasks can be divided into
sub-tasks which
> contributors
> > > can
> > > > >>> pick
> > > > >>>>>>> up
> > > > >>>>>>>>> small tasks based on their expertise
on and contribute
> > > > >>> independently.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 10:40 AM,
Chris Olivier <
> > > > >>> cjolivier01@gmail.com
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The vote was discussed on private@
before the vote on
> dev@,
> > > and
> > > > >>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>> vote
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> went on for a very long time.
 There was ZERO resistance.
> >  No
> > > > >> one
> > > > >>>>>>>>> "snuck"
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> it in or "slipped it by".
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> This, hopefully, phases out both
SIM and tt, which are
> both
> > > are
> > > > >>> being
> > > > >>>>>>>>> used
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in ways that aren't what they're
even designed for, IMO.
> > > > Trouble
> > > > >>>>>>>>> tickets
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> are being used as a backlog for
my team, which is insane.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I've actually sent out a couple
of mails on dev about
> > contact
> > > me
> > > > >> if
> > > > >>>>>>> you
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> don't have access to JIRA.  If
you would like to
> participate
> > > in
> > > > >> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> direction of the project, please
keep up with the dev
> email
> > > > list.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I gave you contributor permissions
on JIRA, btw.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> .
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 10:17
AM, Aaron Markham <
> > > > >>>>>>>>> aaron.s.markham@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I'm not quite sure if I have
enough background on reasons
> > for
> > > > or
> > > > >>>>>>>>> against
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> this to vote in the next
round, but my two cents: I
> didn't
> > > see
> > > > >>> much
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> debate
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> on why we need yet another
tool for issues that we have
> to
> > > > >>> manually
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> maintain...the vote kind
of slid in there without many
> > > > >>> stakeholders
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> realizing what they were
being signed up for. I was
> > thinking,
> > > > >>> sure,
> > > > >>>>>>> if
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> YOU
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> want to make jira tickets,
go right ahead. I have two
> > > internal
> > > > >>>>>>>>> ticketing
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> systems to deal with already
that assign tasks on MXNet,
> > plus
> > > > >>>>>>> GitHub.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Jira
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> would be four. Happy to make
it work, but I'll need fifth
> > > tool
> > > > >> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> aggregate
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> communications and metrics
between the other four tools!
> > I'm
> > > > >> only
> > > > >>>>>>>>> sort of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> joking.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I saw Chris's response, and
ok the public visibility part
> > > makes
> > > > >>>>>>> sense,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> but
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> does this phase out any other
overhead? Does it
> integrate?
> > > Jira
> > > > >>> has
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> integration options so maybe
we can eliminate some
> > > overhead...
> > > > >>> Like
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> something that hooks into
the GitHub api and generates
> jira
> > > > >>> tickets
> > > > >>>>>>> on
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> fly... I want to believe
there's a plan that makes this
> all
> > > > >>> easier.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> What value I don't see is
how we lower barriers to
> > > contribution
> > > > >>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>> make
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> more fluid for new users
that could become contributors.
> > > What's
> > > > >>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>> story
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and value proposition?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Also, I don't see any docs
on the website or on github on
> > how
> > > > to
> > > > >>>>>>> sign
> > > > >>>>>>>>> up
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> for jira, or how to contribute
according to this new
> > > > requirement
> > > > >>>>>>>>> anywhere
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> on the site. Myself and new
contributors wouldn't know
> what
> > > the
> > > > >>>>>>>>> expected
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> flow looks like because it's
not really accessible. I now
> > see
> > > > >> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> confluence wiki, but that's
pretty much hidden from
> anyone
> > > > >>> browsing
> > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> site or github and looking
to contribute. Why is this
> info
> > on
> > > > >>>>>>>>> confluence
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> at
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> all? Why not in the docs
on github that are rendered to
> the
> > > > >>> website?
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Or
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> conversely, why is some of
the info on github and on the
> > > > >> website,
> > > > >>> if
> > > > >>>>>>>>> it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> being maintained and current
only on confluence?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> These are two separate issues
really, but I think if you
> > want
> > > > >>>>>>> buy-in,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> this
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> needs to be more transparent
and obvious, and provide
> clear
> > > > >>> reasons
> > > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> benefits to why you're asking
for more overhead.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Aaron
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2018 21:14,
"Eric Xie" <jxie@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -1
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> JIRA is ancient and arcane.
This adds unnecessary
> > overhead.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2018/03/03 06:11:12,
CodingCat <
> codingcat@apache.org>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This vote passes
with 6 +1 votes (6 bindings) and no 0
> or
> > > -1
> > > > >>>>>>>>> votes.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Binding +1:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Olivier
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Indhu Bharathi
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Suneel Marthi
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yuan Tang
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Marco de Abreu
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Schelter
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Vote thread:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/list.
> > > html?dev@mxnet.apache.org:lte=
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 1M:tracking%20code%20changes%20with%20JIRA%20by%
> > > 20associatin
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> g%20pull%20requests
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I will continue with
pushing the content to wiki and
> take
> > > it
> > > > >>>>>>> into
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> practice
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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