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From Baptiste Mathus <bmat...@batmat.net>
Subject Re: short and snappy description of what Maven is
Date Fri, 10 Jan 2014 11:33:55 GMT
Lost battle imo.
Not sure there's a way to describe the difference between maven and gradle
in a way everyone would agree on...
Le 7 janv. 2014 03:42, "Ron Wheeler" <rwheeler@artifact-software.com> a
écrit :

> I am not sure that you want to start a range war in the opening paragraph.
> If there is a concise second or third sentence that clearly explains the
> difference between Ant and Maven, it would be a great idea to add that.
> If Gradle is likely to be in the running for a new developer, it might be
> interesting to have a sentence explaining the difference. Need to be
> careful not to turn off a new person by an obscure argument that does not
> address the decision points in a way that a new person would understand.
>
> Ron
>
> On 06/01/2014 4:33 PM, Stephen Connolly wrote:
>
>> I don't want a religious war. If Gradle or ANT are a better fit for the
>> way
>> some people think about building software... well good for them... and the
>> faster we can help them realise that Maven takes a different tack the
>> better.
>>
>> I happen to believe that the power of Maven comes from being model driven
>> rather than procedural, which ultimately allows for a richer IDE
>> experience, but consequently you lose some flexibility in your build
>> process. It is a tradeoff I happen to like the Maven balance of, but I am
>> not so arrogant to presume that Maven's balance suits everyone.
>>
>> The Maven repository has grown beyond just Maven, so that is no longer a
>> key differentiator for Maven.
>>
>> The differentiator is in the declarative build rather than procedural
>> build...
>>
>> With Ant you have a mostly pure procedural build.
>>
>> With Maven you have a mostly pure declarative build.
>>
>> With Gradle you have a hodge-podge mix of both.
>>
>> (By declarative, I mean <packaging>jar</packaging> is all I need to
>> declare, maven knows how everything fits into that)
>>
>> So let's let others go to the tools that suit their tastes, and the faster
>> that we help them there, the less bitching about how "Maven is crap
>> (because it doesn't suit my taste)" we will hear.
>>
>> It's like marmite: you either love it or hate it!
>>
>>
>> On 6 January 2014 20:08, Russell Gold <russell.gold@oracle.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Several sentences sounds good. But here’s another question. Comparing
>>> Maven to ant is almost too easy in terms of advantages. Is gradle now a
>>> serious competitor (I had been working on converting an enormous project
>>> to
>>> maven, but the architect decided to switch to gradle, so I am
>>> particularly
>>> sensitive to the issue). I can see some superficial advantages of gradle
>>> that might appeal to some projects. Is it better to ignore or address
>>> this?
>>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2014, at 3:02 PM, Stephen Connolly <
>>> stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  On Monday, 6 January 2014, Ron Wheeler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I think that the target has to be people deciding whether to try Maven.
>>>>> They initially want to know what it does and why it is better than Ant
>>>>>
>>>> or
>>>
>>>> whatever they are using now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Trying to teach Maven in a single sentence is too much to ask.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Maven is a build tool which consumes and produces artifacts managed
in
>>>>>
>>>> a
>>>
>>>> repository." doesn't sound like it will help build my application.
>>>>> At the start, one doesn't have any artifacts or own a repository.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Apache Maven is a convention-over-configuration build tool which has
>>>>> great dependency management features."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think we should hint at the descriptive philosophy rather than the
>>>> procedural philosophy most tools take
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  is pretty clear for a single sentence description and it true.
>>>>> Maybe we can come up with a follow-up sentence to amplify/explain this
>>>>>
>>>> one.
>>>
>>>> Most programmers or project managers should be able to find the time to
>>>>> read 2 or maybe 3 sentences before deciding on a build tool.
>>>>> As long as each sentence draws the person deeper into Maven, that would
>>>>> work.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes that is the idea
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06/01/2014 12:57 PM, Russell Gold wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Of course, you could say that about Gradle, too. And ant now does have
>>>>>> the ability to use those dependency features.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I went through this when creating my video course (not in the sig
>>>>>>
>>>>> because
>>>
>>>> this is work email). It’s not clear to me that you can make a one
>>>>>>
>>>>> sentence
>>>
>>>> description that will provide sufficiently useful information unless
>>>>>> something like:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Maven is a build tool which consumes and produces artifacts managed
>>>>>>
>>>>> in a
>>>
>>>> repository."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that is not going to help people coming new to the project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I am missing the motivation here.Is the target for this
>>>>>> description people deciding whether to try Maven? People trying to
>>>>>>
>>>>> learn
>>>
>>>> how to use it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:43 PM, Lyons, Roy <Roy.Lyons@cmegroup.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> on https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/New+Main+Site it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> says:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We need a short and snappy description of what Maven is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Apache Maven is a software project management and comprehension
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> tool."
>>>
>>>> Is just not an easy to understand description of what Maven is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to submit my short description for review.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Apache Maven is a convention-over-configuration build tool which
has
>>>>>>> great dependency management features."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know that it does more than that - but I feel that at its core,
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> is what it really is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>
> --
> Ron Wheeler
> President
> Artifact Software Inc
> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>
>
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