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From Curtis Rueden <ctrue...@wisc.edu>
Subject Is Gradle a competitor to Maven?
Date Mon, 06 Jan 2014 20:38:36 GMT
Hi Russell,

Russell Gold wrote:
> Is gradle now a serious competitor (I had been working on converting
> an enormous project to maven, but the architect decided to switch to
> gradle, so I am particularly sensitive to the issue). I can see some
> superficial advantages of gradle that might appeal to some projects.
> Is it better to ignore or address this?

Software architects are faced with a choice between Maven or Gradle (or
other systems) when structuring their projects. So I would definitely call
them competitors.

I am currently in a similar situation to yours, in that the architect of
one of the large development teams with which I collaborate prefers Gradle
to Maven, and is planning to switch to it rather than Maven itself. Members
of that team have a stated dislike Maven's "our way or the highway"
approach to builds, and believe Gradle offers most of Maven's benefits
without Maven's (perceived) inflexibility. Gradle produces Maven-compatible
artifacts, so this decision is not the end of the world.

However, see this thread:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/maven-users/201209.mbox/%3CB8D164BED956C5439875951895CB4B220EEE1538@WABOTH9MSGUSR8C.ITServices.sbc.com%3E

I agree with the OP's assessment:
> One of the disadvantages of Gradle is the same as Ant, which is that
> it's very easy to have two people do similar things in a completely
> different way.  Gradle makes it easier to reuse things, but it doesn't
> seem like it nudges you that hard in that direction.

So even if Gradle is more beautiful and/or succinct (I wish Maven POMs
supported JSON!), I personally like the standardization that Maven brings
to the table, especially after having designed relatively complex build
systems in Ant and then getting stuck maintaining them for many years.
Maven does everything (and much more! extensibly!) that my custom build
system does, largely in a much better way, without reinventing the wheel,
and hence without new developers suffering another learning curve.

Regards,
Curtis


On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Russell Gold <russell.gold@oracle.com>wrote:

> Several sentences sounds good. But here’s another question. Comparing
> Maven to ant is almost too easy in terms of advantages. Is gradle now a
> serious competitor (I had been working on converting an enormous project to
> maven, but the architect decided to switch to gradle, so I am particularly
> sensitive to the issue). I can see some superficial advantages of gradle
> that might appeal to some projects. Is it better to ignore or address this?
>
> On Jan 6, 2014, at 3:02 PM, Stephen Connolly <
> stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, 6 January 2014, Ron Wheeler wrote:
> >
> >> I think that the target has to be people deciding whether to try Maven.
> >> They initially want to know what it does and why it is better than Ant
> or
> >> whatever they are using now.
> >>
> >> Trying to teach Maven in a single sentence is too much to ask.
> >>
> >> "Maven is a build tool which consumes and produces artifacts managed in
> a
> >> repository." doesn't sound like it will help build my application.
> >> At the start, one doesn't have any artifacts or own a repository.
> >>
> >> "Apache Maven is a convention-over-configuration build tool which has
> >> great dependency management features."
> >
> >
> > I think we should hint at the descriptive philosophy rather than the
> > procedural philosophy most tools take
> >
> >
> >> is pretty clear for a single sentence description and it true.
> >> Maybe we can come up with a follow-up sentence to amplify/explain this
> one.
> >> Most programmers or project managers should be able to find the time to
> >> read 2 or maybe 3 sentences before deciding on a build tool.
> >> As long as each sentence draws the person deeper into Maven, that would
> >> work.
> >
> >
> > Yes that is the idea
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Ron
> >>
> >>
> >> On 06/01/2014 12:57 PM, Russell Gold wrote:
> >>
> >>> Of course, you could say that about Gradle, too. And ant now does have
> >>> the ability to use those dependency features.
> >>>
> >>> I went through this when creating my video course (not in the sig
> because
> >>> this is work email). It’s not clear to me that you can make a one
> sentence
> >>> description that will provide sufficiently useful information unless
> >>> something like:
> >>>
> >>> "Maven is a build tool which consumes and produces artifacts managed
> in a
> >>> repository."
> >>>
> >>> But that is not going to help people coming new to the project.
> >>>
> >>> I think I am missing the motivation here.Is the target for this
> >>> description people deciding whether to try Maven? People trying to
> learn
> >>> how to use it?
> >>>
> >>> On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:43 PM, Lyons, Roy <Roy.Lyons@cmegroup.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> on https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/New+Main+Site it
> >>>> says:
> >>>>
> >>>> We need a short and snappy description of what Maven is:
> >>>>
> >>>> "Apache Maven is a software project management and comprehension
> tool."
> >>>>
> >>>> Is just not an easy to understand description of what Maven is.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I would like to submit my short description for review.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Apache Maven is a convention-over-configuration build tool which has
> >>>> great dependency management features."
> >>>>
> >>>> I know that it does more than that - but I feel that at its core, this
> >>>> is what it really is.
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ron Wheeler
> >> President
> >> Artifact Software Inc
> >> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
> >> skype: ronaldmwheeler
> >> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Sent from my phone
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>

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