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From Ron Wheeler <rwhee...@artifact-software.com>
Subject Re: New site content
Date Fri, 03 Jan 2014 16:27:00 GMT
I agree with Robert's comment.
There is a danger that the page will become architecturally elegant and 
will correctly describe all of the possible uses of Maven but will be 
too obscure to be useful as a starting point for a new person.

It is sufficiently difficult to understand the basic concepts in using 
Maven to create a simple jar with a single POM.
You are introducing a lot of new concepts:
-Lifecycle
-Dependencies
-Plug-ins
- Project model
that a person coming from make or Ant has to grasp.

Defining these and the relationships among them in a simple way is 
sufficiently challenging without trying to abstract a sufficiently 
general model to handle all of the edge cases.

The "Maven way" needs to be explained very simply rather than 
conceptually complete.

Ron


On 03/01/2014 11:09 AM, Robert Scholte wrote:
> Op Fri, 03 Jan 2014 16:46:33 +0100 schreef Stephen Connolly 
> <stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com>:
>
>> On 3 January 2014 15:17, Robert Scholte <rfscholte@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I like the idea of images, however I would avoid a graph to make 
>>> something
>>> clear for new Maven users.
>>> Instead I'd prefer a linear model.
>>>
>>
>> My first draft did not have the graph at the top... perhaps it would be
>> better suited at the bottom ;-)
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I think you should split the current model into pieces:
>>>
>>> A project model contains:
>>> - dependencies
>>> - a build plan
>>> - other project models ( you can call this the Droste effect[1] )
>>>
>>
>> I like to think of the project model as not just the root pom.xml but 
>> all
>> the pom.xml files, so there is only one project model, this should make
>> understanding how -pl, -am and -amd switches have their effects
>>
>>
>
> IMO these switches are way too detailed for a 60 sec tutorial. I even 
> think that a large group of the average Maven users don't know these 
> switches or use them.
>
>>> - ...
>>>
>>> There are several build-plans, namely: a build-plan for jar, war, 
>>> ear, etc.
>>> Every build plan has a set of predefined plugins,  which you can adjust
>>> (with switches?)
>>>
>>
>> No there is one and only one build plan. We would have to redefine build
>> plan everywhere else to be able to use it like that. There is a 
>> lifecycle
>> binding for each packaging
>>
>>
>
> Then buildplan is too abstract. With a real world example: the 
> buildplan for a house and a bike are completely different. Unless you 
> say: you have a design, some goods, you mix those goods and you have 
> your product.
> Not a useful plan IMO.
> At least keep the audience in mind: do they need to know the actual 
> implementation or do they first need to understand the overall 
> process. I think the latter is more important, even if this conflicts 
> a bit with the idiom used by experienced Maven users.
> What if we call it "build instructions" (per packaging type) ?
>
>>>
>>> Now, what does Maven do?
>>>
>>> Maven reads the build plan and executes it. Some steps of the build 
>>> plan
>>> deliver products ( compiled classes, test results, a package)
>>>
>>> I think the reactor might be confusing at this level.
>>>
>>
>> I want the 60sec tutorial to be the grand overview, the next tutorial 
>> is a
>> 5 minute one on how a .jar file gets built
>>
>> Then you have a multi-module webapp tutorial at 10-15min
>>
>> I want to reference all the core concepts from the 60 second overview 
>> even
>> if only briefly, that way people can come back to the short page and say
>> "ahh yes that is where that fits in again"
>>
>>
>>>
>>> my 2 cents,
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droste_effect
>>>
>>>
>>> Op Fri, 03 Jan 2014 15:41:15 +0100 schreef Stephen Connolly <
>>> stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>
>>>  Just in case it wasn't clear... I'm looking for comments and feedback
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3 January 2014 14:35, Stephen Connolly
>>>> <stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  OK, so to start working on new content I created some pages on the 
>>>> wiki:
>>>>>
>>>>> The first page is a 60 seconds overview of Maven's build process
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/
>>>>> Tutorial:+Maven+in+60+seconds
>>>>>
>>>>> I am using icons because I want to have subsequent pages give more 
>>>>> detail
>>>>> and use the iconography to enable people to see what is being 
>>>>> discussed
>>>>> more easily
>>>>>
>
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>


-- 
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102


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