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From Thomas Broyer <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Should the Maven PMC be an example of how we want the Maven Community to behave (was Re: svn commit: r1506778 - /maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/
Date Thu, 25 Jul 2013 15:05:13 GMT
I think I'm with Ron Wheeler here.

I'd add though: are you a “Project Manager” if you don't contribute to
the project the changes you're doing in a fork? My gut feeling would
be “no”, but that'd be ignoring the amount of contributions to the
project itself (I know who you're talking about, but I have no idea
what his implication in Maven proper is).

Also, AFAICT, the "long running fork" (at least 2 years) is not open
source (parts of it are, not everything) so it's hard to know what
will come out of it and when, and how much implication the PMC member
has in each project.

Also, the fork website says there's no intent in forking Maven (but
rather build upon it).
Or am I wrong about what's and who's being pointed at under cover?

I can hardly comment more than that, being ignorant of what happens on
the Maven Dev list. If the PMC member being pointed at here is who I
think he is, then I have no other problem with his work than not being
open source (and apparently not a proprietary non-free product
either), and creating dissension in the PMC.

That being said, the more I use Maven, the more I think it's “broken
by design”, and there's unfortunately nothing better out there with a
big-enough community to compete.
I wouldn't really mind if Maven collapsed like others here “predict”,
I'd just switch to another contender (Gradle probably) that's just
different more than being better.
So in the end, don't give too much weight to my opinion here ;-)

On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Stephen Connolly
<> wrote:
> There are two schools of thought amongst the current members of this
> projects PMC.
> Without wanting to deliberately tip my hand and reveal where my opinion is,
> we would like to solicit the opinions if the community that we serve.
> Please give us your thoughts.
> The topic is essentially:
> Do you want the members of the Maven PMC to be social leaders of the Maven
> community, who's actions demonstrate the best community behaviour?
> The alternative is that members of the Maven PMC are here purely to
> complete the legal requirements that an Apache TLP has delegated to PMCs
> This is not black and white... The answer can be grey... And everyone is
> human so can make mistakes...
> So community, what are you expecting?
> - Stephen Connolly
> On Thursday, 25 July 2013, wrote:
>> Author: jdcasey
>> Date: Wed Jul 24 23:21:58 2013
>> New Revision: 1506778
>> URL:
>> Log:
>> Adding section on PMC standards of community commitment
>> Modified:
>>     maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/
>> Modified: maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/
>> URL:
>> ==============================================================================
>> --- maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/ (original)
>> +++ maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/ Wed Jul 24
>> 23:21:58 2013
>> @@ -176,6 +176,29 @@ The Project Management Committee has the
>>  * Voting on release artifacts.
>>  * <!-- TODO: get the rest of these -->
>> +#### Standards for Community Commitment
>> +
>> +In the spirit of supporting the health of our community, Project
>> +Management Committee members refrain from actions that subvert the
>> +functioning of the committee itself.
>> +
>> +First, Project Management Committee members should not maintain
>> long-running
>> +forks of Maven code outside of the project itself. Making significant
>> +changes to Maven code outside of the project displays a lack of
>> +investment in the community. Additionally, attempting to re-integrate
>> +a large number of code changes in bulk overwhelms the ability of
>> +volunteers in the community to review (and potentially veto) the
>> +changes. This effectively thwarts the policing function of the
>> +PMC.
>> +
>> +Second, Project Management Committee members should not divert
>> +work on redesigning, reimplementing, or improving Maven code to
>> +alternative projects outside of this community for the purposes of
>> +reintroducing them as replacement for existing Maven code. While there
>> +is a danger here of falling into a Not Invented Here mentality, new
>> projects
>> +created by Maven PMC members strictly to replace Maven code should not be
>> +allowed.
>> +
>>  ### [Project Management Chair](
>>  For various legal reasons, there are certain things that the Apache
> --
> Sent from my phone

Thomas Broyer

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