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From Stephen Connolly <stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Should the Maven PMC be an example of how we want the Maven Community to behave (was Re: svn commit: r1506778 - /maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md)
Date Thu, 25 Jul 2013 14:31:42 GMT
On Thursday, 25 July 2013, Curtis Rueden wrote:

> Hi Stephen and everyone,
>
> I largely agree with Nigel, and would add that in general, bureaucratic
> rules prohibiting various (often technically and/or socially sound) actions
> such as forking are a great way to ensure that skilled people distance
> themselves from the organization (i.e., quit the PMC, decline to join,
> etc.). You will be left with only bureaucrats who can tolerate those
> restrictions, and worse, create even more of them.
>
> Of course, there should be good, publicly stated reasons for long-running
> forks.


I will not speak for the author of the proposed revision, but my
understanding of the intent is that these forks should be hosted on ASF
hardware in public and as part of our community.

It's not about no forking, but allowing the committers to have an ongoing
view of things in the community.

Any committer is free to edit the wording if they want right now... The doc
is a work in progress proposal


> Merging to mainline is ideal but not always practical in the real
> world. Developers need the freedom to experiment, even (perhaps especially)
> when in active community positions such as the PMC.
>
> That said, it is certainly the responsibility of those on the PMC to act as
> community leaders via best practices. But enforcing that in writing, at
> least as the current proposal does, seems very counterproductive to me.
>
> Regards,
> Curtis
> On Jul 25, 2013 8:59 AM, "Nigel Magnay" <nigel.magnay@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That whole section I find pretty bizarre.
> >
> > - Apache is about (open-source) software.
> > - Writing code is *good*.
> > - Forks are *good*
> > *
> > *
> > I'm put in mind of Linus' talk about why git distribution is so
> important -
> > that 'if you don't think I'm doing a good job, then you can just take
> your
> > code from another maintainer. *That's* what keeps a project honest and
> > responsive to the users.
> >
> > I would have thought that the kinds of people who are interested in
> writing
> > maven-esque code would be some of the people you'd want on a PMC. If they
> > have a "long running fork" or a "reimplementation", surely they would be
> > lobbying for its integration? Merging is also good. If, despite this,
> > they're choosing to do this elsewhere, and/or are having trouble merging
> > projects in, isn't that a pretty sad indictment for the health of the
> > project? Isn't it a bit like saying "boo-hoo, those that are doing the
> > actual work might go work in their own sandpit if we won't play ball,
> let's
> > ex-communicate them" ?
> >
> > Unless (as some have suspected for a while) Apache isn't about software
> > anymore, it's about the continued existence of Apache (cfex:
> OpenOffice).-
> > a political edifice where projects go to die. That's certainly what those
> > added paragraphs say to me.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Stephen Connolly <
> > stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > There are two schools of thought amongst the current members of this
> > > projects PMC.
> > >
> > > Without wanting to deliberately tip my hand and reveal where my opinion
> > is,
> > > we would like to solicit the opinions if the community that we serve.
> > >
> > > Please give us your thoughts.
> > >
> > > The topic is essentially:
> > >
> > > Do you want the members of the Maven PMC to be social leaders of the
> > Maven
> > > community, who's actions demonstrate the best community behaviour?
> > >
> > > The alternative is that members of the Maven PMC are here purely to
> > > complete the legal requirements that an Apache TLP has delegated to
> PMCs
> > >
> > > This is not black and white... The answer can be grey... And everyone
> is
> > > human so can make mistakes...
> > >
> > > So community, what are you expecting?
> > >
> > > - Stephen Connolly
> > >
> > > On Thursday, 25 July 2013, wrote:
> > >
> > > > Author: jdcasey
> > > > Date: Wed Jul 24 23:21:58 2013
> > > > New Revision: 1506778
> > > >
> > > > URL: http://svn.apache.org/r1506778
> > > > Log:
> > > > Adding section on PMC standards of community commitment
> > > >
> > > > Modified:
> > > >     maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md
> > > >
> > > > Modified: maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md
> > > > URL:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md?rev=1506778&r1=1506777&r2=1506778&view=diff
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> ==============================================================================
> > > > --- maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md (original)
> > > > +++ maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/project-roles.md Wed Jul 24
> > > > 23:21:58 2013
> > > > @@ -176,6 +176,29 @@ The Project Management Committee has the
> > > >  * Voting on release artifacts.
> > > >  * <!-- TODO: get the rest of these -->
> > > >
> > > > +#### Standards for Community Commitment
> > > > +
> >



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