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From Ron Wheeler <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Should the Maven PMC be an example of how we want the Maven Community to behave (was Re: svn commit: r1506778 - /maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/
Date Fri, 26 Jul 2013 03:05:04 GMT
On 25/07/2013 5:05 PM, Stephen Connolly wrote:
> Perhaps we could reframe the question a little then (as people seem to be
> testing hung up on the committed wording)...
> Should the PMC encourage people experimenting on new improvements to Maven
> to do that work at the ASF? And if so, should they then practice what they
> preach, and ensure that any experiments with Maven take place on the ASF
> SCM servers (at least once such experiments become semi-serious or progress
> enough not to cause egg-on-face syndrome)?
> Shoud the PMC promote other Apache projects, or moving non-Apache projects
> to Apache? (Right now, to work on an issue in core and effect the change
> yourself you may need to establish merit with: Apache Maven, Eclipse Sisu,
> Eclipse Aether, Plexus, Apache Commons, Classworlds, etc. Now it may be
> fine with half of these at Eclipse and the ther half here... Or maybe
> not... But that is a lot of projects where you need to establish merit and
> perhaps maintain merit just to be able to commit directly (which sometimes
> is the only way to effect the type of cross system changes that some of our
> more obscure bugs may require... GIT makes this less of a requirement, as
> patches on SVN are a PITA, though) )
Don't see this as helping the community.
> These types of questions need resolution as they will, further down the
> road, rise up again and cause wounds... Eg logback vs log4j2 is one that
> simmers at the edge (any time anyone mentioned coloured loggers)

Some of these can be discussed in the user community if there is not an 
obvious answer.

> -Stephen
> On Thursday, 25 July 2013, Paul Benedict wrote:
>> I don't think it is possible to force volunteer efforts and/or limit
>> development elsewhere. The idea of supporting a project is a vague notion.
>> I have my opinions too but this language is clearly unenforceable and
>> impractical.
>> Cheers,
>> Paul
>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Markus Karg <> wrote:
>>> As a Maven user I think that everybody who is working on a project should
>>> behave the same. Hence, I would say, PMC members should rather certainly
>>> demonstrate how to live the community rules.
>>> -----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: Stephen Connolly []
>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Juli 2013 15:16
>>> An: Maven Users List; Maven Developers List
>>> Betreff: [DISCUSS] Should the Maven PMC be an example of how we want the
>>> Maven Community to behave (was Re: svn commit: r1506778 -
>>> /maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/
>>> There are two schools of thought amongst the current members of this
>>> projects PMC.
>>> Without wanting to deliberately tip my hand and reveal where my opinion
>>> is, we would like to solicit the opinions if the community that we serve.
>>> Please give us your thoughts.
>>> The topic is essentially:
>>> Do you want the members of the Maven PMC to be social leaders of the
>> Maven
>>> community, who's actions demonstrate the best community behaviour?
>>> The alternative is that members of the Maven PMC are here purely to
>>> complete the legal requirements that an Apache TLP has delegated to PMCs
>>> This is not black and white... The answer can be grey... And everyone is
>>> human so can make mistakes...
>>> So community, what are you expecting?
>>> - Stephen Connolly
>>> On Thursday, 25 July 2013, wrote:
>>>> Author: jdcasey
>>>> Date: Wed Jul 24 23:21:58 2013
>>>> New Revision: 1506778
>>>> URL:
>>>> Log:
>>>> Adding section on PMC standards of community commitment
>>>> Modified:
>>>>      maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/
>>>> Modified: maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/
>>>> URL:
>>>> ======================================================================
>>>> ========
>>>> --- maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/ (original)
>>>> +++ maven/site/trunk/content/markdown/ Wed Jul 24
>>>> 23:21:58 2013
>>>> @@ -176,6 +176,29 @@ The Project Management Committee has the
>>>>   * Voting on release artifacts.
>>>>   * <!-- TODO: get the rest of these -->
>>>> +#### Standards for Community Commitment
>>>> +
>>>> +In the spirit of supporting the health of our community, Project
>>>> +Management Committee members refrain from actions that subvert the
>>>> +functioning of the committee itself.
>>>> +
>>>> +First, Project Management Committee members should not maintain
>>>> long-running
>>>> +forks of Maven code outside of the project itself. Making significant
>>>> +changes to Maven code outside of the project displays a lack of
>>>> +investment in the community. Additionally, attempting to re-integrate
>>>> +a large number of code changes in bulk overwhelms the ability of
>>>> +volunteers in the community to review (and potentially veto) the
>>>> +changes. This effectively thwarts the policing function of the PMC.
>>>> +
>>>> +Second, Project Management Committee members should not divert work
>>>> +on redesigning, reimplementing, or improving Maven code to
>>>> +alternative projects outside of this community for the purposes of
>>>> +reintroducing them as replacement for existing Maven code. While
>>>> +there is a danger he> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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>>> For additional commands, e-mail:<javascript:;>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Paul

Ron Wheeler
Artifact Software Inc
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

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