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From Joachim Durchholz ...@durchholz.org>
Subject Re: Unpacking jars into target/classes
Date Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:48:56 GMT
Am 18.03.2013 12:45, schrieb Stephen Connolly:
> I would not base your opinion on this one thread.
>
> Joachim got off on the wrong foot by mistaking us trying to guide him
> towards a path (where he won't fight maven all the way) for us being
> evangelical and spouting religious dogma...

Just for the record: I heartily disagree with that view of what happened 
there.
In fact I have reason to believe that such a path doesn't even exist, 
and in more situations than any Maven proponent would like to admit.
Of course, Maven proponents would heartily disagree with that view, and 
in fact that part of the debate never reached a conclusion (nor will it 
ever, I think).

 > Some of us in this list may
> have egged on the troll vs troll style of this interaction, but the past is
> a foreign country that we cannot visit, personally I think it should be
> left behind, fault on both sides, therefore both sides gave some learning
> to do.

I can agree with that.

> I am currently working on trying to find a way to revamp the main maven
> site to make it easier for people to get up to speed and grok the reasons
> for maven picking the sides it picks as well as grok *where* maven says
> "not my problem" (anything after a deployment environment agnostic artifact
> has been delivered into the maven repository is not maven's problem BTW,
> use other tools: Chef/Puppet/ANT/Gradle/Buildr/BASH/etc to turn that into
> an artifact configured for the specific environment it will be deployed
> into and put it in that environment)

Good plan.

I'd also add a paragraph that Maven is not a toolbox, with the tools to 
be mixed and matched as a desired workflow mandates. Instead, you're 
supposed to study the workflows available, select the one that best fits 
your requirements, and stick with that no matter what. Of course you can 
configure the workflows, but the extent to which that is possible is 
strictly controlled.

I consider that approach to be a core mistake in Maven's, but I can 
agree to disagree about that one and move on, in the knowledge that 
little could be done about it even if it's true so there's little to be 
gained in discussing that.

What we probably can agree on is that (a) the workflows are implicit in 
what's available in the plugins and what isn't, which makes it hard to 
get an overview of the available workflows and select the right one; and 
(b) the problem is massively worsened if plugin descriptions are vague 
or incomplete, and that this has in fact grown to be a real problem.
Which is why I wholeheartedly agree that Maven could profit from better 
docs. Even if I disagree about what it should do ;-)

Regards,
Jo

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