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From "Gorham-Engard, Frank" <>
Subject RE: How to perform ordered tasks in Maven2 build
Date Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:19:34 GMT
Hey Wayne,
We don't need to start name calling here.
"zealous ant users"? Would that be someone who believes that their favorite tool must be best
for everybody. Remind you of anyone?
There are ant users and maven users. And there are zealous users and pragmatic users. You
don't have to be a zealous user to believe that the tool you are using is working fine and
it would be a lot of work to change. Instead of insisting that people change and complaining
(or name calling) if they are reluctant, let's take the approach of trying to supply the information
we believe that they are not aware of yet. You know, that information that if they knew it
then they would definitely agree with us.
So what is it that these "zealous ant users" should know? I think maybe it is "Where is the
evidence that me using Maven will make my customers happier?"

We've all heard of the latest greatest thing that would provide massive long term benefits
if only we would accept the short term pain. Pascal, CASE tools, OOD, UML, giving up smoking,
losing weight, etc.  Some people just want you to try everything they think is good. Other
people are naturally resistant.

I told the engineers here that management had decided that we would have to change to Maven
because it would look so good on everybody's resume.  It's odd to have management insisting
that we change. After so many years complaining that management only looked at the short term
goals, now it's management that is looking at the long term and the engineers still doubt
that they know what they're doing. So, even management buy-in isn't the magic pill to success.

<!-- Frank Gorham-Engard →
"It is a misnomer to label any practice 'a best practice'; 
  a practice is only best in the specific context in which it performs well."

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Fay [] 
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:28 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Re: How to perform ordered tasks in Maven2 build

> It was key for us that it happened in a grass roots fashion.
> A meritocrocy approach, while slow, is generally the best way to
> get buy in. If you force it, everyone will hate it and not be very productive.

I agree 100% with the grassroots, meritocracy approach. But it sounded
like the OP in this thread has no real power to re-architect his
projects/builds and he is working with "zealous ant users".

We know that is the path to failure. So someone, somewhere needs to
give him this power -- ideally its the dev team(s) he is working with,
but it could also be the person they report to, depending on the
culture of the org and the norms in their locale (Asia vs Europe vs US


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