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From "Bielby, Randy J" <>
Subject RE: Jar help
Date Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:11:54 GMT

Unfortunately, if my project choses to use Maven we will be the only
project doing so here.  There are probably 200 other apps in production
plus 20-30 currently under development.  So, I will have to conform to
what the corporate standards are, regardless of my build tool.  That may
mean duplicate maintainence as far as storing jars etc, in a repository.

Like it of not, this is the reality of large corporate development where
standards and best practices are sometime mandated based upon a wide
range of criteria.  Most of which have nothing to do with the day to day
work of the developers in the trenches (see Tim Reilly's post)

Randy Bielby

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Maczka Michal [] 
>Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 3:24 AM
>To: 'Maven Users List'
>Subject: RE: Jar help
>> >Not really. Maven repository is competly different beast then 
>> >SCM repository
>> >and provides different features.
>> >
>> Is it?  Or is it just a difference of access protocol, http 
>> vs pserver?
>> Yes, I know that versioning etc is not part of the repo, but 
>> from a very
>> basic view of a jar containment mechanism, they could be used
>> interchangably.  I'm not that familiar with the plugins, but I would
>> guess that I could implement a repostory plugin that access a cvs
>> repository rather than a Maven one. By basically creating a module in
>> cvs that had contents very similar to a Maven repo, I could in theory
>> accomplish the same thing.
>Yes it is different. First of all binary artifacts are not 
>well handled by
>SCM repositories
>and versioning mechanism which is used by SCM is rather 
>useless for them.
>E.g. you cannot easily check-in an artifacts and require that this is
>version 1.2.7 of log4j.
>Also metadata which is needed by maven repositories is different.
>Say that you have jar file and you want to find matching 
>javadoc artifact or
>jar with sources (might be useful for debugging)
>SCM repositories don't provide any facility for that. 
>It is true that you can theoretically use SCM repositories as maven
>repositories but if you do that
>you are probably not using a single feature which they provide 
>(maybe with
>exception for security mechanisms).
>So from maven point of view there is no difference if 
>artifacts are accessed
>from local file system or cvs repository
>(except of course of protocol which is used)
>> >> If the repo had an interface to CVS it then might become
>> >> more "sellable" in a corporate environment.  That way all 
>> >> components of
>> >> an application are contained with a single source control 
>> mechanism.
>> >
>> >Jars and other generated artifacts are not "sources" and SCM 
>> system are
>> >really useless for them.
>> >Are you going to keep javadocs in cvs as well?
>> >
>> No they are not sources, but the ARE components that 
>contribute to the
>> overall completion of the resulting artifact.  There fore 
>> they should be
>> under some kind of version control mechanism.  In Maven case, that
>> mechanism is the Maven repository.  And instead of the version
>> attributes of a given file being a relationship to the file, 
>> it is part
>> of the name of the file.  From and auditing standpoint, I have to be
>> able to recreate an EAR from a single repository.  Plus I'm 
>> not sure we
>> would pass an internal audit if some of our distributed 
>binary was not
>> maintained internally.  And then to top it all off, we have an
>> additional deployment tool (Harvest/AllFusion) for deploying to all
>> tiers above our development tier.  
>I am not sure if I understand you. Why would any of your binaries 
>couldn't be maintained internally? Are you aware of the fact that maven
>works well
>without the access to ibiblio and only with intranet repositories?
>And how can you audit your projects if an audit tool cannot dig the
>information which artifacts were used in your projects?
>Maven repositories can be also used for deploying artifacts like report
>So you can for example track changes of the projects like test 
>total number of tests and what ever else you want. 
>I don't really think that those kind of artifacts should be kept in SCM
>systems. In fact I think that almost never
>"generated" artifact should be kept in such system. SCM 
>systems are intend
>for keeping sources.
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