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From John Casey <>
Subject Re: Next release?
Date Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:08:11 GMT

As a relative newbie to Maven, but a veteran of Ant, I can't agree
enough.  I have personally made an ass out of myself several times
asking stupid questions on the irc channel.  However, for me these were
basic questions that I couldn't find the answer to.  Once, I was
referred to a project on a completely unrelated site as an example.  Or,
in the worst case, I have spent _hours_ digging through someone else's
code (and consequently someone else's mind) looking for where a
particular feature is implemented, so that I could see _how_ it works.

Perfect example:  Try to create a project.xml that only compiles
_some_of_ the classes in the source tree you're referring to.  I had to
check the Commons-logging project.xml for that one.

I have a full-time job, and can't really afford the weeks-long
investment required to understand how to configure a project, let alone
contribute to it.  

Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of Maven, but if there is no
documentation the only developers you will ever have are (a) the ones
you already have, or (b) any people who have _nothing_ else to do. 
Plus, you need good documentation to support the droves of people out
there just looking to give you a popularity vote in JDJ or
JavaPro...that's definitely worth something.

Just my 2c.


On Thu, 2002-12-12 at 12:43, Henri Yandell wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
> > Rafal Krzewski <> writes:
> >
> > >Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote:
> >
> > >> Is "documentation" one of the 2-3 serious things left to do?
> >
> > >Documentation is nice but working code is better :-) My experience with
> > >OSS shows that docs lie on the far end of the priority list. The people
> >
> > And that's why there are bazillons of abandoned, half-finished or
> > simply not usable OSS projects.
> A full-hearted +1.
> Documentation is nice, working code is good, but community is better.
> Good documentation leads to community. Working code without a community is
> not good OSS.
> [from having sat on the sidelines on Maven for a year now]
> The early Maven documentation was simply amazing and along with Jason's
> fervent drive were the two things that turned Maven from an idea into the
> next generation project it is.
> The documentation slipped as it had to handle multiple versions at the
> same time and as the amount of time spent documenting was less than the
> amount of time spent coding new features.
> It reached a bad point where the online docs were just plain wrong, but
> has since improved so that they are correct, but new features seem to take
> time to fully appear, and concepts like Best-Use-Guides and multi-level
> tutorials are not there yet.
> Even as a 'user' who is sitting and waiting for documentation to appear
> for some features [if anyone wants to write a Reactor tutorial, I'd owe
> you a beer] I still think that Maven 1.0 does not need great
> documentation, but that the focus of work once Maven 1.0 is released
> should be on tutorials, documentation and books.
> My tuppence,
> Hen
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