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From Jason van Zyl <>
Subject Re: Merging with XWiki and WikiModel
Date Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:38:38 GMT

On 30-Jan-09, at 3:04 PM, Vincent Siveton wrote:

> Hi Jason,
> 2009/1/29 Jason van Zyl <>:
>> Howdy,
>> I've been looking at reporting in Maven 3.x and I've been following  
>> the work
>> that Vincent Massol has been doing over at XWiki where he has made  
>> some
>> attempts at melding Doxia, the XWiki rendering engine, and  
>> WikiModel. You
>> can see the proposal here:
>> I am looking to remove the Doxia dependency from Maven 3.x so that  
>> reporting
>> is removed from core and just becomes another set of components.  
>> Having
> I definitely agree to decouple Maven from Doxia, or conversely :)
> We actually have a lot of problems due to this coupling, see MNG-3402.
>> Doxia coupled to Maven is not very nice so in the next couple  
>> releases of
>> the Maven 3.x alphas the hard dependency on Doxia will be removed.  
>> This will
>> open the door for anyone who wants to add a different mechanism.  
>> Doxia
>> reports will still work, I'm not planning on removing the  
>> functionality just
>> unbinding it from the core. But that opens the door for something  
>> new!
> Some questions to clarify what you have in mind:
> - how do you plan to integrate reporting concretely to Maven 3?

As a completely separate execution environment. So the plugin manager  
in 3.x will only deal with build plugins. Then a separate plugin  
manager can be created for Doxia based reports and those will map to  
the current reporting element. Then I would like to create another  
execution environment for a more data centric report model.

> - what about the backward compatibility in the reporting plugins?

I will make the basic support to start but my interest lies in a data  
centric model for reporting. The more document centric approach I  
think has progressed further in XWiki and WikiModel. I would  
personally like to feed the data collected into something simple for  
producing reports.

>> What I personally think the best path would be is to help what  
>> Vincent has
>> started. There are really only three people here who work on Doxia,  
>> the
>> releases are very slow in coming and I think you would immediately  
>> double or
> Agree but we work when we have time :)

Sure, but I think you would benefit by having a team that is focused  
on this full-time. I don't see any downside as then your additional  
part-time efforts help something that the XWiki folks are working on  
all the time.

> @Dennis: what are your availabilities to release the version 1.0?
> After this release, 1.1 could be out, IMHO all stuffs are there.
>> triple the size of the team merging with the XWiki folks and  
>> getting the
>> WikiModel developer as well. This is what the XWiki folks do all  
>> the time
>> and I think you would get some more velocity in the progress of the  
>> project
>> as a whole. Vincent is using Plexus for his stuff so it's not that  
>> wildly
>> different but I think you would get more visibility over there and  
>> a higher
> The xwiki proposal seems to move the Doxia code to the xwiki umbrella,
> so do you plan to do it?

I don't work on Doxia so I'm not going to do anything. I'm going to  
focus on data production and once I do that I'll figure out how I'm  
going to produce reports. I think there are good things in Doxia,  
XWiki, and WikiModel so a hybrid of the three systems is probably the  
best path forward.

> @Vincent, could you clarify why a fork is not possible for you?
> Cheers,
> Vincent
>> degree of collaboration. I think you would also get a model that is  
>> more
>> complete for things like blogs, wikis, and books.
>> Any thoughts? I've CC'd Vincent too as I'm not sure he's on this  
>> list.
>> Thanks,
>> Jason
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>> jason at sonatype dot com
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> People develop abstractions by generalizing from concrete examples.
>> Every attempt to determine the correct abstraction on paper without
>> actually developing a running system is doomed to failure. No one
>> is that smart. A framework is a resuable design, so you develop it by
>> looking at the things it is supposed to be a design of. The more  
>> examples
>> you look at, the more general your framework will be.
>> -- Ralph Johnson & Don Roberts, Patterns for Evolving Frameworks



Jason van Zyl
Founder,  Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com

You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in.
No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow.
They know it is going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically
dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of
dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or
goals are in doubt.

   -- Robert Pirzig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

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