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From Jason van Zyl <ja...@takari.io>
Subject Re: Maven 3.2.6
Date Wed, 04 Mar 2015 05:28:34 GMT
Someone going to release Wagon 2.9-SNAPSHOT or can I roll it back to 2.8 for the 3.2.6 release?

On Mar 3, 2015, at 12:02 PM, Karl Heinz Marbaise <khmarbaise@gmx.de> wrote:

> Hi Jason,
> 
> at the moment i have 09:00 o'clock pm ...(21:00 o'clock) CET...
> 
> I'm available ....
> 
> 
> On 3/3/15 4:15 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>> Today in the afternoon here I can be around after 20h. Yesterday didn't work. Karl-Heinz
what's your schedule looking like?
>> 
>> On Mar 1, 2015, at 11:14 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr> wrote:
>> 
>>> I should be there (after 20h, Paris time)
>>> I'd like to improve docs on new features (like extensions model)
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Hervé
>>> 
>>> Le dimanche 1 mars 2015 15:38:32 Jason van Zyl a écrit :
>>>> We can just sync up in IRC and pop in a hangout if people are interested.
>>>> I'll sift through JIRA in the morning. I'm in California so I'll try to get
>>>> up a bit earlier so it's not the end of your day by the time we get around
>>>> to meeting.
>>>> On Mar 1, 2015, at 1:17 PM, Karl Heinz Marbaise <khmarbaise@gmx.de>
wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jason,
>>>>> 
>>>>> are those changes you made already public in branches? So it's possible
to
>>>>> take a look into it...
>>>>> 
>>>>> And a hangout tomorrow sounds great...I'm interested in...
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> Karl Heinz
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 3/1/15 10:06 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm done rebasing and merging my changes into master here locally.
But I
>>>>>> still have a day or two of testing and a day of writing documentation.
>>>>>> There are also a couple APIs I'm not super happy with so I might
alter
>>>>>> those slightly before the final release.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So if anyone wants to jump in a hangout tomorrow to chat about other
bits
>>>>>> we want to try and do for 3.3.0 I'm game. I also need to go through
and
>>>>>> find all references to 3.2.6 and change them to 3.3.0. There are
a few
>>>>>> ITs that depend directly on 3.2.6-SNAPSHOT so all that needs to be
>>>>>> looked at as well.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So I think we're looking at a few more days if anyone wants to get
in
>>>>>> small fixes.>>
>>>>>> On Feb 28, 2015, at 7:37 AM, Jason van Zyl <jason@takari.io>
wrote:
>>>>>>> Great, thanks. I'm just working away on the work I'd like to
get in. So
>>>>>>> tentatively hope to be done this weekend.>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 28, 2015, at 7:03 AM, Andreas Gudian <andreas.gudian@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm done with my changes (documented in MNG-5776), and it
seems to work
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> no at least the java process is started with the right parameters
and
>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>> script variables leak out into the cmd console... ;-)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> @Igor: thanks for checking up, I overlooked your second commit
with the
>>>>>>>> change of the VM-argument name.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 2015-02-26 18:07 GMT+01:00 Jason van Zyl <jason@takari.io>:
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2015, at 3:49 AM, Andreas Gudian <andreas.gudian@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I can handle that, but not before the weekend.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Jason, does that conflict with your schedule for
the release?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> No dire rush on my side and I have two feature branches
to merge
>>>>>>>>> anyway so
>>>>>>>>> take your time. Happy to have the help.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps we just say that we drop the support for
old Windows versions
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 3.3.0 and do the actual work that removes the support
from the bat
>>>>>>>>>> files
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> the next minor release?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I would imagine that no one out there cares for Windows
98/ME anyway
>>>>>>>>>> ;-).
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Am Donnerstag, 26. Februar 2015 schrieb Anders Hammar
:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 8:16 AM, Stephen Connolly
<
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, February 26, 2015, Anders Hammar
<anders@hammar.net
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One thing we could do to make stuff
easier around these .bat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scripts
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drop support for this 4NT shell and
Windows versions that are not
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NT (i.e. Windows 9x / ME).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, as Maven 3.2+ requires a minimum
of JDK 1.6 there is no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> support anything that JDK 1.6 doesn't
run on.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> If we are calling this 3.3.0 we can just
say we have dropped win
>>>>>>>>>>>> 9x/Me
>>>>>>>>>>>> support and the 4NT alternative command interpreter
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes. We should probably clearly state what we
support in the System
>>>>>>>>>>> Requirements (both on-line and in distro).
>>>>>>>>>>> And a JIRA ticket to go with this is good for
the release notes.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> /Anders
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't find any info about Oracle JDK
1.6, but Oracle JDK 1.7
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> requires a
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> minimum of Windows Vista [1].
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't find any info on openJDK's
requirements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IBM J9 JDK 6 seems to require a minimum
of Windows XP SP3 [2].
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/config-417990.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [2]
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/#!/SSYKE2_6.0.0/com.ibm.
>>>>>>>>> java.doc.60_26/vm626/GenericWrapper/hardwareandsoftwarerequirements.ht
>>>>>>>>> ml>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Anders
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015-02-25 19:38 GMT+01:00 Jason
van Zyl <jason@takari.io
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Awesome, thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 10:32 AM,
Andreas Gudian <
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> andreas.gudian@gmail.com <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm stuck with a windows
box and I can give it a try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .bat-scripting is not really
a joy, but what's in the patch
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> translatable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andreas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015-02-25 17:01 GMT+01:00
Igor Fedorenko <igor@ifedorenko.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can see actual diff
to mvn shell script in [1], but the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically two-fold. First,
find nearest parent directory that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .mvn/ subdirectory. This
parent is considered "true"
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> multi-module
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project root (MNG-1958).
Second, if .mvn/java.config file is
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> present
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately under the
true multimodule project root, use its
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> java invocation parameters,
i.e. similar to $MAVEN_OPTS
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> environment
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know enough about
Windows scripting to make similar
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mvn.bat and mvnDebug.bat
batch files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=maven.git;a=commit;h=
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8ed9a1caa8890773b45c6c408a4e40acf4f4b0fd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Igor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2015-02-25 9:56, Robert
Patrick wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What exactly is the
problem that Igor ran into that limits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Unix-only?  Knowing
this would help people determine what
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort needed to
solve the problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Patrick <robert.patrick@oracle.com
<javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VP, Oracle Corporation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7460 Warren Pkwy,
Ste. 300      Office: +1.972.963.2872
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Frisco, TX 75034,
USA           Mobile: +1.469.556.9450
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professional Oracle
WebLogic Server
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Robert Patrick,
Gregory Nyberg, and Philip Aston
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with Josh Bregman
and Paul Done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Book Home Page: http://www.wrox.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kindle Version: http://www.amazon.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason van Zyl
[mailto:jason@takari.io <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>]
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday,
February 25, 2015 7:40 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Maven Developers
List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Maven
3.2.6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 24, 2015,
at 11:31 PM, Arnaud Héritier <
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> aheritier@gmail.com <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had a quick look
at the changeling and I'm +1 for a 3.3.0
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improvements
like the toolchain integration and few others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the project
and won't veto anything as I have no time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand
why
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MNG-5767
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrated without
a windows support ? For me it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Noone could help
Igor on this ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be great
if someone would help, but it is still a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> step
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For projects that
require this and document specific
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> requirements
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just work for non-Windows
users. Say the project needs 8gb to
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correctly: in most
cases no one reads the documentation they
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and it fails. Then
they go read something and figure it out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We've at least made
it work for some people. If there isn't a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committer who uses
Windows who can add the same capabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find a contributor
I don't think it should stop the feature
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the people it
can benefit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Igor and I don't
use Windows regularly, don't know Windows,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know Windows and
none of our customers use Windows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's overall a net
improvement. For me it's a about gradual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improvement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I've asked on
Twitter if there are any Windows users that
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many months/years
ago the integration of colors in logs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> output
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rejected in a
part because we wasn't confident in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that
was the issue. The issue was us not being
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decide on an underlying
logging framework. I've seen JANSI
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows for years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My 2 cents.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 25,
2015 at 1:29 AM, Mark Derricutt <
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> mark@talios.com <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 Feb 2015,
at 4:06, Karl Heinz Marbaise wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on
the list of changes i would suggest to make a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.2.6....to
make clear something is introduced....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 on 3.3.0
here. Bring on the changes!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Derricutt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.theoryinpractice.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.chaliceofblood.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://plus.google.com/+MarkDerricutt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/talios
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://facebook.com/mderricutt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arnaud Héritier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://aheritier.net
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier
AT gmail DOT com Twitter/Skype :
>>>>>>>>>>> aheritier
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Founder, Takari and
Apache Maven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> People develop abstractions
by generalizing from concrete
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every attempt to
determine the correct abstraction on paper
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually developing
a running system is doomed to failure. No
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart. A framework
is a resuable design, so you develop it by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the things it is
supposed to be a design of. The more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the more general
your framework will be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Ralph Johnson
& Don Roberts, Patterns for Evolving
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Frameworks
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;> For
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> additional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commands, e-mail:
dev-help@maven.apache.org <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands,
e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands,
e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lastly, "Impossible." The lamest
of the lame excuses! Difficult
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impractical, or too expensive,
but rarely is anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impossible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Yvon Chouinard, Let my People
Go Surfing
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my phone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> the course of true love never did run smooth ...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -- Shakespeare
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We know what we are, but know not what we may be.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- Shakespeare
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We know what we are, but know not what we may be.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  -- Shakespeare
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Jason
>>>> 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Be not afraid of growing slowly, be only afraid of standing still.
>>>> 
>>>> -- Chinese Proverb
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his
play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation.
He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever
he is doing, and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. To himself,
he always appears to be doing both.
>> 
>>   -- François-René de Chateaubriand
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Mit freundlichem Gruß
> Karl-Heinz Marbaise
> -- 
> SoftwareEntwicklung Beratung Schulung    Tel.: +49 (0) 2405 / 415 893
> Dipl.Ing.(FH) Karl-Heinz Marbaise        ICQ#: 135949029
> Hauptstrasse 177                         USt.IdNr: DE191347579
> 52146 Würselen                           http://www.soebes.de
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> 

Thanks,

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
http://twitter.com/takari_io
---------------------------------------------------------

the course of true love never did run smooth ...

 -- Shakespeare













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