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From Jason van Zyl <ja...@takari.io>
Subject Re: Plexus Archiver / Plexus Components
Date Tue, 09 Sep 2014 12:49:58 GMT

On Sep 9, 2014, at 8:02 AM, Stephen Connolly <stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9 September 2014 12:42, Jason van Zyl <jason@takari.io> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Sep 8, 2014, at 10:34 PM, Benson Margulies <bimargulies@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Jason van Zyl <jason@takari.io> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> You current CLA is sufficient. You'll the author of the code, you can
>>>> contribute it to Apache. We need to find the people on that list who do
>> not
>>>> have a CLA on file.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your CLA is sufficient if you, yourself, commit it to an Apache repo.
>> Since
>>> we're planning to push a repo full of contributions from github to
>> apache,
>>> the CLA is not enough on its own.
>> 
>> Explain to me how the CLA doesn't cover this case? Whether the code sat on
>> your machine for 10 years or traveled through 20 repos. It's still your
>> code and the conditions of the CLA apply. When code comes into the
>> incubator here or goes into Eclipse no one signs a letter of intent. They
>> sign CLAs.
>> 
> 
> Your CLA covers the code that you contribute to the Apache Foundation (or
> intend to contribute) and does not cover code you contribute elsewhere.
> 

Yes, this is patently obvious. Go look at the process by which a new repository of code is
inducted into Apache. What we are doing is no different and requires no additional special
procedure. Again, there's no harm in a letter of intent. It is perfunctory as a provenance
mechanism.

> The code in plexus was intended to be contributed to the plexus project and
> thus there is no demonstrated intent to contribute to Apache.
> 
> We just need a demonstration of intent from all significant contributors, a
> simple email to the dev list saying something like "I am happy to have my
> contributions to plexus contributed to the Apache Maven project" would
> suffice
> 
> 
>>> Everyone has to indicate their intent to
>>> contribute this particular set of stuff. Under the AL, this happens if
>> you
>>> commit as a committer, or send a patch to a mailing list, or make a PR.
>>> Since none of those things are happening, I suggested that contributors
>>> send mail to the dev@ list saying, 'ok, I want to contribute my content
>>> from these plexus repos.'
>> 
>> This is not necessary and I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion
>> but there's no harm in sending a message of intent. The CLA makes no
>> specific provisions for how the file is transmitted to the target entity or
>> that it matters, only that the contributor asserts the work is there's to
>> contribute under the submitted license. A lawyers is not going to look at a
>> message sent to a mailing list for intent, they are going to look at a set
>> of contributed files and determine if those files are covered by CLAs on
>> hand.
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 8, 2014, at 7:32 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> here is the new version with csv files and committers deduplicate
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~hboutemy/codehaus/summary.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> now we need to ask for everybody's attribution of his contributions,
>> and
>>>> we'll
>>>>> see how much we cover from each component
>>>>> 
>>>>> some components should be easy to cover fully, like plexus-cli
>>>>> some will be harder...
>>>>> 
>>>>> to start, I'm ready to give ASF all my contributions: how should I
>>>> proceed?
>>>>> some formal e-mail on this ML?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hervé
>>>>> 
>>>>> Le dimanche 7 septembre 2014 23:22:39 Hervé BOUTEMY a écrit :
>>>>>> improved the automatic summary
>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~hboutemy/codehaus/summary.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I suppose the next step will be to create a csv to be able to work
on
>>>>>> figures with a spreadsheet
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have no time at the moment, will try tomorrow if nobody beats me
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hervé
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Le dimanche 7 septembre 2014 15:01:58 Benson Margulies a écrit :
>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Kristian Rosenvold <
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> kristian.rosenvold@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> But I still assume we need to get some kind of idea of how
good is
>>>>>>>> good enough. At some point there's going to be a significant
>>>>>>>> contributor we won't be able to get hold of. We might be
able to
>> work
>>>>>>>> around this by removing code or similar, but I don't think
there is
>>>>>>>> any point in starting a massive search for people if 100%
is the
>> only
>>>>>>>> permitted result.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Is there any way we could get some idea of what kind of requirement
>>>>>>>> we'd be facing ? Can we acceptably simply delete contributions
from
>>>>>>>> people we can't get hold of (that may work in some cases)
?  We
>>>>>>>> usually operate on a "200 line" quota for requiring a CLA;
can we
>>>>>>>> disregard people with smaller contributions ? (And if so,
would that
>>>>>>>> be *total* 200 lines or "per submission" ...?)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yes, you can open a JIRA at LEGAL, and/or communicate with the
>> board. I
>>>>>>> recommend completing the survey first. No one there likes to
answer
>>>>>>> hypothetical questions; having an actual set of facts will grossly
>>>> improve
>>>>>>> the conversation.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Kristian
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 2014-09-07 1:01 GMT+02:00 Jason van Zyl <jason@takari.io>:
>>>>>>>>> Cool, with your tool can you aggregate that into a single
list of
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> userIds/Names and then remove us.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I recognize most of the non-us and with that list we
can contact
>> them
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> all at once if we want.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> here are more accurate statistics:
>>>>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~hboutemy/codehaus
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Le samedi 6 septembre 2014 09:39:20 Hervé BOUTEMY
a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>> I satrted to write down the count of contributors
done by github,
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> link,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/Plexus+dependencies
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure figures are relevant:
>>>>>>>>>>> - missing contributions? it seems so, I looked
at plexus-velocity
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> older
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> commits are not counted...
>>>>>>>>>>> - every contribution has to be taken into account?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> we'll probably need to do more manual work: will
need to dispatch
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> components
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> to avoid one to do the work for everything
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> then we'll need to figure out the process details:
I read
>>>>>>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/index.html,
I suppose
>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> have as
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Maven Chair some work to do (any help from other
members
>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated),
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> still don't understand precisely
>>>>>>>>>>> i will need some explanations from people with
experience,
>> probably
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> IRC
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> wil be more efficient
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hervé
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Le jeudi 4 septembre 2014 23:18:14 Hervé BOUTEMY
a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>> ok, so how do we do the next step?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hervé
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Le jeudi 4 septembre 2014 06:49:02 Kristian
Rosenvold a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had a look through a few projects,
and it would seem to me
>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "know" 90% of the committers because
they are all associated
>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maven, most of them are also active.
There's a further 5 or so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> committers that are well known community
folks that we could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get hold of easily. It would appear to
me this group is 95% or
>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the commits. There's a handful of names
I am unsure if we'll be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to locate, the contributions I've seen
from these names are
>>>> small.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it all amounts to something like
this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For quite a few of the plexus repos we
have close to 100% of
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> committers as currently active maven
community members.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For yet another bunch of projects we
have one or two
>> significant
>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-maven contributors that we may be
able to get hold of.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For plexus-utils the list is a bit longer,
but there's a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> smaller contributions that'd normally
go below the CLA radar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I suppose we'd need to get some kind
of exact metric to measure
>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we were to make an even more structured
attempt at evaluating
>>>>>>>>>>>>> compliance..?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kristian
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-09-03 21:50 GMT+02:00 Jason van
Zyl <jason@takari.io>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For everything significant where
significant is defined as
>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 200
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines. I don't think we have any
of those, and if we actually
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> expunged
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the source classes we don't
actually use we're definitely
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> safe.>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2014, at 3:27 PM, Benson
Margulies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bimargulies@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If _everyone_ is present and
accounted for, I agree.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 3:01 PM,
Jason van Zyl <
>> jason@takari.io
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think everyone is
making this 10x more complicated
>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our existing CLAs apply.
If you wrote the code, you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contribute
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For modello, plexus-utils,
and plexus-classworlds we're
>>>> covered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I can tell.>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2014, at 2:44 PM,
Kristian Rosenvold
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> <kristian.rosenvold@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To my best knowledge,
*all* of the substantial contributors
>>>> to
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plexus repositories I
have seen are available to us, most
>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PMC's or emeritus, and
still "around" in some fashion or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could we make all of
them submit some kind of written
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ASF ? I would actually
think that would cover a decent
>>>> 95%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significant contributions,
and in quite a few (maybe even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all...)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the repos it would cover
100% ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (I am assuming they'll
be willing to make such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission...)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kristian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-09-03 19:07 GMT+02:00
Benson Margulies
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> <bimargulies@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014
at 3:02 AM, Karl Heinz Marbaise
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> <khmarbaise@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/2/14 11:18
PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gang, doesn't
the board of the ASF have very strong,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> negative,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feelings
about ASF PMC's controlling and maintaining
>> code
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ASF?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any
evident about that ? any official statement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from ASF Board
?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm working on getting
a pointer to a written policy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apache-software-foundation->
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> la
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> un
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ches-apache-extras/#!bO9wnv
describes a scheme to allow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _not_ an Apache PMC
to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manage Apache-related
projects. There is, I predict, a
>> fine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between 'some people
who happen to be Maven PMC members'
>> and
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 'the
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maven PMC', and I'm
trying to save us from getting swatted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crossing it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I confess
that I found this whole topic extremely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confusing,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what with
the googlecode 'Apache Extras' business. We
>>>> might
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask for some
clarification before we go here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep
2, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Karl Heinz Marbaise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <khmarbaise@gmx.de>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/2/14
2:56 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
asked Github to give us github.com/maven for our
>> 3rd
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> party
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
is using it. Maybe Hervé can setup
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> github.com/apachemaven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> move
those Git repositories there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately
github.com/apachemaven is also occupied
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind
regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karl-Heinz
Marbaise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
Sep 2, 2014, at 3:09 AM, Kristian Rosenvold
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kristian.rosenvold@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We have started talking about moving them somewhere,
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
have come tom restart that discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You can either ask Brian for access or have one of
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
existing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
committers apply your pull request. Just a regular
>> pull
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
request
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
github should do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Kristian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2014-09-01 22:37 GMT+02:00 Karl Heinz Marbaise
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> <khmarbaise@gmx.de>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
i just want to know how we handle things which are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
located
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
components
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
like plexus-archiver etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Currently i'm diving into some problems and want to
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> checkin
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
improvments
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
on the plexus-archiver...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
How can i gain commit access to those components ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Kind regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Karl-Heinz Marbaise
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe,
e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional
commands, e-mail:
>> dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands,
e-mail:
>> dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands,
e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A man enjoys his work when
he understands the whole and when
>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is responsible for the quality
of the whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Christopher Alexander,
A Pattern Language
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness is like a butterfly: the
more you chase it, the more
>>>> it
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elude you, but if you turn your attention
to other things, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and sit softly on your shoulder ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Thoreau
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> There's no sense in being precise when you don't even
know what
>>>> you're
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> talking about.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -- John von Neumann
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Jason
>>>> 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
>>>> and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
>>>> 
>>>> -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> A man enjoys his work when he understands the whole and when he
>> is responsible for the quality of the whole
>> 
>> -- Christopher Alexander, A Pattern Language
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Thanks,

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder,  Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
http://twitter.com/takari_io
---------------------------------------------------------

Selfish deeds are the shortest path to self destruction.

 -- The Seven Samuari, Akira Kurosawa










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