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From Jason van Zyl <ja...@tesla.io>
Subject Re: Pain with MNG-5181 (_maven.repositories)
Date Sun, 03 Feb 2013 23:27:28 GMT
You mind if I ping you off line? I have a couple things I'd like to test.

On Feb 3, 2013, at 6:21 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau@gmail.com> wrote:

> Usually i comment all in this one
> Le 4 févr. 2013 00:20, "Jason van Zyl" <jason@tesla.io> a écrit :
> 
>> Just so I'm clear do you switch between this settings.xml and no
>> settings.xml, or you just use this settings.xml all the time?
>> 
>> On Feb 3, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> here it is https://gist.github.com/c07256a99d3b2af322eb
>>> 
>>> @home i remove the settings.xml in general
>>> 
>>> *Romain Manni-Bucau*
>>> *Twitter: @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau>*
>>> *Blog: **http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/*<
>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/>
>>> *LinkedIn: **http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau*
>>> *Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau*
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2013/2/3 Jason van Zyl <jason@tesla.io>
>>> 
>>>> Would still be useful if you removed your passwords and sent me both
>>>> configurations, if this is happening to you with this configuration it's
>>>> probably happening to others. If I can give it a quick look I can
>> probably
>>>> tell you why the error is happening or determine if it is, in fact, a
>> bug.
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 3, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> well nothing special in it (host/port/protocol proxies +
>>>> username/password
>>>>> servers).
>>>>> 
>>>>> however i build company projects using enterprise project having as
>>>>> dependencies tomee, could it generate it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> *Romain Manni-Bucau*
>>>>> *Twitter: @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau>*
>>>>> *Blog: **http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/*<
>>>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/>
>>>>> *LinkedIn: **http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau*
>>>>> *Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau*
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2013/2/3 Jason van Zyl <jason@tesla.io>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Can you send me the configurations?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If the artifacts are accessible and it fails then that's a bug. But
I
>> am
>>>>>> willing to bet one configuration yields a different set of URLs to
>> which
>>>>>> particular artifacts are not accessible. If I can reproduce it then
>> this
>>>>>> will help contribute to an error message that's more useful.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2013, at 4:35 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau@gmail.com
>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I switch my settings and the only differences are:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 1) some server config (i guess that's not important)
>>>>>>> 2) (more important) proxies (host/port)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> i don't use mirrorOf.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> PS: the issue can happen with tomee trunk so repos are always
>> available
>>>>>>> since the internet is available.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *Romain Manni-Bucau*
>>>>>>> *Twitter: @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau>*
>>>>>>> *Blog: **http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/*<
>>>>>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/>
>>>>>>> *LinkedIn: **http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau*
>>>>>>> *Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau*
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2013/2/3 Jason van Zyl <jason@tesla.io>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If this is on one machine where you are not changing configurations
>> or
>>>>>>>> locations then something else is wrong as this does not happen
for a
>>>>>>>> machine that stays in the same place using the same settings.xml.
Do
>>>> you
>>>>>>>> use a mirrorOf in your settings.xml that points to a group
>> repository?
>>>>>> Can
>>>>>>>> you share your configuration? When you encounter this problem
next,
>>>> move
>>>>>>>> your whole local repository out of the way (or use
>>>>>>>> -Dmaven.repo.local=/tmp/repo) and you find that the build
will fail.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> When this error occurs it means that the artifacts you're
asking for
>>>> are
>>>>>>>> not available in any configured repository. You erase
>>>>>> _maven.repositories
>>>>>>>> file, and Maven does not verify that artifact's existence
in the
>>>> remote
>>>>>>>> repository and let's you use the artifact you acquired locally
by
>> some
>>>>>>>> other means.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This generally happens as a result of switching between
>> configurations
>>>>>>>> which changes the id/url of the repository you are using.
You do a
>>>> build
>>>>>>>> against id=repo1(URL1) and get some artifacts and those are
recorded
>>>> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> _maven.repositories files, and then you switch configurations
and
>> use
>>>>>>>> id=repo2(URL2) and that repository doesn't have the artifacts
you
>>>>>> acquired
>>>>>>>> from id=repo1(URL1).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The problem encountered for people flipping between using
Central
>>>>>> directly
>>>>>>>> and using a mirrorOf setting with a repository manager is
as
>> follows:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you have no mirrorOf setting and you have POMs that contain
>>>>>> repository
>>>>>>>> entries Maven will follow the repositories in the POMs and
acquire
>> any
>>>>>>>> dependencies from those repositories listed in the POMs.
Now when
>> you
>>>>>> flip
>>>>>>>> to using a mirrorOf setting with a repository manager all
those
>>>> requests
>>>>>>>> will be routed through that single URL. If you have not setup
the
>>>>>> proxies
>>>>>>>> in your repository manager that correspond to the repositories
in
>> the
>>>>>> POMs
>>>>>>>> the build will fail because those artifacts are not accessible
to
>> the
>>>>>>>> repository manager.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
>> rmannibucau@gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Not sure it is linked or not (i read the thread lately)
but at work
>>>> we
>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>> a proxy and not at "home" and i often have to remove
_maven.repo
>>>> files
>>>>>>>>> (both ways) to make my build work again...that's an everyday
pain.
>>>>>>>>> Le 3 févr. 2013 21:41, "Jason van Zyl" <jason@tesla.io>
a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2013, at 3:26 PM, Baptiste MATHUS <ml@batmat.net>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> +1.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Though the feature seems interesting, it should
have had its own
>>>>>>>>>>> advertisement while being introduced.
>>>>>>>>>>> Even after re-reading
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/MAVEN/maven-3x-compatibility-notes.html#Maven3.xCompatibilityNotes-ResolutionfromLocalRepository
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> still unsure about where/when it would bite me.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Does this make sense to you?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> h1. Enhanced Remote Repository Support
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The feature verifies that the remote repositories
configured for
>> the
>>>>>>>>>> current build can be used to successfully resolve
the artifact in
>>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>>>>>> If you retrieved an artifact in the past from Central
and now
>>>> changed
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> build to only know about Nexus and it doesn't have
any knowledge
>> of
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> artifact then the build is going to fail. Put differently,
if you
>>>>>> purged
>>>>>>>>>> your local repo, your build won't work either. Neglecting
offline
>>>>>> mode,
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> goal is to ensure that the resolution works if it
could be
>> performed
>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>> a clean local repo with the current configuration.
Giving
>> confidence
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> co-workers can reproduce the build and not depend
on some artifact
>>>>>>>>>> magically being pulled down into your local repository
in the past
>>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>>>>> nowhere to be found in the configured remote repository.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> And would you want that off by default?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> As I know and like Maven quite well, if I was
bitten by that, I
>>>> might
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>> some reseach and find jiras etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Others might just struggle to make it work and
grow the maven
>>>> bashing
>>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>>>> as Jeff said.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/2/1 Jeff MAURY <jeffmaury@jeffmaury.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 on Arnaud's comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The main problem with this "feature" is that
it is not
>> documented
>>>>>>>> thus I
>>>>>>>>>>>> can't explain the real reason why Maven download
several times
>>>>>>>> released
>>>>>>>>>>>> artifacts and this causes members of the
Maven bashing group to
>>>> grow
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Arnaud Héritier
<
>>>>>> aheritier@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My position was to propose the low cost
possible solution to
>>>> have a
>>>>>>>>>> quick
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix and not to wait for months.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If it could be fixed/configurable in
aether it may be the
>>>> solution
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> follow but I'm not sure about the status
of this 3rd party
>>>> project
>>>>>>>>>>>> (eclipse
>>>>>>>>>>>>> migration ...) on which we don't have
the hand.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously I helped and lost MANY hours
with this problem
>> because
>>>> it
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to diagnose.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that many people abandoned to
try to understand and
>> just
>>>>>>>>>> dropped
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their local repo or decided to downgraded
to m2 (or to switch
>> to
>>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tool).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we can have a lot of similar
feedbacks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The worst thing is to have another thing
that users don't
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>>> (lake
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of documentation ? communication ?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The side effect is that changing a repository
id (or mirror id)
>>>>>> makes
>>>>>>>>>>>> maven
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to re-download all the earth (while we
are claiming from the
>>>>>>>> beginning
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maven won't never download twice a release).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And when the remote artifact just disappeared
it is just a
>>>>>> nightmare
>>>>>>>>>> due
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the lake of correct logs and this case
is easy to have.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For example in my company I have a profile
to let people DL
>>>>>> artifacts
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> staging repositories (thus these are
releases). It happened
>> that
>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> activated it once to test a build and
then they rebuild the
>>>> project
>>>>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the profile (thinking the artifact is
in the local repo) and it
>>>>>> fails
>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely I think I had my worst headaches
with maven due to
>> this
>>>>>> bug
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Jason
van Zyl <jason@tesla.io>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2013, at 7:13 PM, Arnaud
Héritier <
>>>> aheritier@gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Olivier,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thx a lot for the fix. It will
help a lot the community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But from my point of view it's
perhaps not yet enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We should :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1/ change the default behavior
to deactivate this control
>> which
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult to understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree. We may want to change
it slightly but it's only a
>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people who flip between Maven a repository
manager and without
>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ensure the identity of a component.
I haven't seen a huge
>> number
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaints. I do not want to turn
this off. Improve it, sure,
>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> turning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it off by default I believe is not
the right thing to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2/ change the error message when
this control is activated to
>>>>>>>>>>>> clearly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain that the problem comes
from the unavailability of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> artifact
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its original remote repo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For me 1/ is mandatory and 2/
a nice to have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WDYT ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:53
AM, Olivier Lamy <
>>>> olamy@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have pushed a fix for that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now you can desactivate the
enhanced local repository using:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * new cli option: -slrm,--simple-local-repository-manager
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * or in MAVEN_OPTS: -Dmaven.simpleLocalRepoMan=true
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be available for testing
here
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://builds.apache.org/job/maven-3.x/
with build #368
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/1/31 Jörg Hohwiller
<joerg@j-hohwiller.de>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Arnaud,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to consider the
current behavior as a bug.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We should be able
to deactivate it easily (and perhaps to
>>>> have
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> default to activate
it only on CI servers)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we should take
care to have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a real error message
explaining the issue and not a
>>>> classical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dependency
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not found while the
artifact is in the local repo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is exactly filed
here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MNG-5185
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arnaud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jörg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If know-how becomes know-where,
then knowledge gets
>> nowhere.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Jörg Hohwiller]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Olivier Lamy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Talend: http://coders.talend.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/olamy
| http://linkedin.com/in/olamy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands,
e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arnaud Héritier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://aheritier.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail
DOT com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter/Skype : aheritier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our achievements speak for themselves.
What we have to keep
>>>> track
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of are our failures, discouragements
and doubts. We tend to
>>>> forget
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the past difficulties, the many false
starts, and the painful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> groping. We see our past achievements
as the end result of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clean forward thrust, and our present
difficulties as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> signs of decline and decay.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Eric Hoffer, Reflections on the
Human Condition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arnaud Héritier
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://aheritier.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail DOT com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter/Skype : aheritier
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff MAURY
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Legacy code" often differs from its suggested
alternative by
>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>>>> working and scaling.
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Bjarne Stroustrup
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.jeffmaury.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://riadiscuss.jeffmaury.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.twitter.com/jeffmaury
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Baptiste <Batmat> MATHUS - http://batmat.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sauvez un arbre,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mangez un castor ! nbsp;! <http://www.twitter.com/jeffmaury>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>>>>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype
>>>>>>>>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> To do two things at once is to do neither.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -- Publilius Syrus, Roman slave, first century B.C.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype
>>>>>>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest
exercises
>> in
>>>>>>>> moral philosophy; that is,
>>>>>>>> the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- John Kenneth Galbraith
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype
>>>>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What matters is not ideas, but the people who have them. Good people
>> can
>>>>>> fix bad ideas, but good ideas can't save bad people.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- Paul Graham
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Jason
>>>> 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype
>>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in.
>>>> No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow.
>>>> They know it is going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically
>>>> dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of
>>>> dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or
>>>> goals are in doubt.
>>>> 
>>>> -- Robert Pirzig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype
>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> A party which is not afraid of letting culture,
>> business, and welfare go to ruin completely can
>> be omnipotent for a while.
>> 
>>  -- Jakob Burckhardt
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Thanks,

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder & CTO, Sonatype
Founder,  Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
---------------------------------------------------------

Our achievements speak for themselves. What we have to keep track
of are our failures, discouragements and doubts. We tend to forget
the past difficulties, the many false starts, and the painful
groping. We see our past achievements as the end result of a
clean forward thrust, and our present difficulties as
signs of decline and decay.

 -- Eric Hoffer, Reflections on the Human Condition






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