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From Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: fixing transfer listener in trunk
Date Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:22:03 GMT
Jason,

That's all fine. I am looking for specifics to make Log4J 2 better.

Gary

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Jason van Zyl <jason@tesla.io> wrote:

> Gary,
>
> If by that you mean that it's an Apache project, I don't consider that to
> be a significant criterion. For me to incorporate something it matters that
> it's technically good and has been vetted, is mature, is well supported and
> has a community of users as that's how something gets vetted over time.
> Those are the criteria that I believe are important. Where the project
> resides is a matter of happenstance. I use Logback for everything and have
> a great relationship with Ceki so personally that's my dogfood.
>
> On Nov 11, 2012, at 9:48 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And then there is the whole eating your own dog food aspect of
> > choosing a logging framework. We've made some significant progress
> > over at log4j 2.0 and we are days from a beta3 release. It would be
> > nice to hear how we could further improve 2.0 to whet Maven's logging
> > appetite.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On Nov 11, 2012, at 5:19, Jason van Zyl <jason@tesla.io> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Nov 11, 2012, at 2:49 AM, Olivier Lamy <olamy@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Perso I propose a change by pointing you (you means other maven dev
> >>> folks too) to a branch I made somewhere but you commit code without
> >>> listening POV from others.
> >>> If you could wait to hear what other thinks that could be lovely....
> >>
> >> I believe you do exactly what you accuse me of Olivier. You did not
> propose a change, you pointed to your branch with a terse "fixed" as if it
> were a foregone conclusion.
> >>
> >> I started the SLF4J work, I worked with Ceki to try and minimize the
> change, keep the ITs passing while preserving the existing behaviour and
> keeping the dependency size and complexity to a minimum.
> >>
> >> I've been working on restoring the behaviour and my goal, at least, was
> to reduce the possible complication of using a larger framework. The second
> I created the JIRA issue, you point at your branch and say "fixed" without
> any explanation. You used the console transfer listener not working -- and
> I admit that was annoying and I apologize for leaving it like that so long
> -- as a vehicle for adding your preferred logging framework. My goal was to
> introduce SLF4J in a minimal way, at least to start. So if that conflicts
> with your goal then that's fine but jumping in the middle of the work I'm
> doing with a change that proposes to throw away the work I did with SLF4J
> Simple is not fine. Couching it as me not taking into account a wider
> discussion as a response to me finishing what I started with a veto even
> less so.
> >>
> >> I didn't change any of the dependencies, completed the work I started
> and fixed what I broke which I believe is reasonable.
> >>
> >> If the discussion is now transitioning to users want flexible logging
> and the choice of a logging framework that's fine. But I still maintain the
> CLI use of logging can be limited and constrained while allowing
> integrators to make the small changes necessary to add flexible logging.
> But if we want to choose a framework let's look at the options, if people
> want to go that route, and select the best option.
> >>
> >> Reverting my commit will break the console transfer listener. The
> discussion about the use of a logging framework, and its choice if so
> decided, is not a foregone conclusion. So I will revert my commit in the
> morning when I wake up if you want the broken behaviour restored. But note
> I believe you are being unreasonable in that you haven't said a word until
> I raised the JIRA issue today and then took offense to me finishing my work
> while I was in the process of correcting what I broke. Obviously you were
> working on your branch while I was working on my fixes but nothing was
> brought up aside from JIRA.
> >>
> >> You have made sweeping changes in the transport and while you have made
> improvements, you have introduced several things that don't work as they
> did previously -- and I have brought these up with you directly, especially
> as it pertains to security -- I have not jumped down your throat with a
> veto as I expect you will eventually fix them because you care about users.
> Please do me the same courtesy.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Olivier Lamy
> >>>>> Talend: http://coders.talend.com
> >>>>> http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Jason
> >>>>
> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> Jason van Zyl
> >>>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype
> >>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
> >>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> We all have problems. How we deal with them is a measure of our worth.
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Unknown
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Olivier Lamy
> >>> Talend: http://coders.talend.com
> >>> http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Jason
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >> Jason van Zyl
> >> Founder & CTO, Sonatype
> >> Founder,  Apache Maven
> >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder & CTO, Sonatype
> Founder,  Apache Maven
> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> People develop abstractions by generalizing from concrete examples.
> Every attempt to determine the correct abstraction on paper without
> actually developing a running system is doomed to failure. No one
> is that smart. A framework is a resuable design, so you develop it by
> looking at the things it is supposed to be a design of. The more examples
> you look at, the more general your framework will be.
>
>   -- Ralph Johnson & Don Roberts, Patterns for Evolving Frameworks
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
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