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From Jason van Zyl <>
Subject Re: SLF4J integration
Date Thu, 11 Oct 2012 10:48:43 GMT

On Oct 11, 2012, at 6:43 AM, Mark Struberg <> wrote:

> ceki, really, this is perfect example why no container uses commons-logging anymore.
> Do you like to repeat these errors?
> I reiterate: there is a workaround by isolating this in ClassWorlds. It is not yet there,
but ff we like to use slf4j then we will need to implement that.

I will agree with Ceki and Stephen that these may happen, and we can fix it in the field if
it does but I believe it will be rare and I don't like fixing problems that aren't really
problems yet. In the very worst case here to prevent problems to tool being integrated can
fork. But really if you want to construct those cases do so and we'll take a look at how we
approach dealing with it. As Ceki said, and we should all defer to his experience with logging,
it's impossible to deal with all scenarios well but that shouldn't stop us from trying to
make logging better for the vast majority of cases.

> LieGrue,
> strub
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: ceki <>
>> To: Maven Developers List <>
>> Cc: 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: SLF4J integration
>> On 11.10.2012 11:18, Mark Struberg wrote:
>>> Oh I missed one more constellation
>>> a plugin could have slf4j-1.5.x + a logging backend we do not know of.
>>> I hope such things dont often exist, but in theory it could happen.
>>> For all of those cases we need isolation.
>> A few months before creating the SLF4J project, I had a lengthy
>> conversation on the commons-dev mailing list about logging scenarios.
>> Richard Sitze (from IBM) offered a number of complex scenarios, and
>> that's when the penny finally dropped for me [1]. It is a waste of time
>> catering for all imaginable logging scenarios. The space of possible
>> logging scenarios is truly vast. However, only a very limited number of
>> these scenarios occur in practice. It makes more sense to concentrate
>> on the common scenarios to ensure that they are well supported.
>> More concretely, I propose that we find one or two examples of plugins 
>> declaring an slf4j dependency and test these plugins with the upcoming 
>> version of maven (the one using slf4j).
>> [1]
>> -- 
>> Ceki
>> 65% of statistics are made up on the spot
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Jason van Zyl
Founder & CTO, Sonatype
Founder,  Apache Maven

happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will
elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come
and sit softly on your shoulder ...

-- Thoreau 

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