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From Mark Struberg <strub...@yahoo.de>
Subject Re: Removing unused code from maven-shared-utils
Date Thu, 30 Aug 2012 13:07:17 GMT
> If you are attempting to remove plexus-utils initially without a 

> binary compatible drop-in replacement with code from Apache then I'm -1. 

Please re-read my previous mail. We will NOT drop plexus-utils! We will just move maven core
off it for most parts. 


>  we've had incremental build support in m2e forever
You don't see most of the 'incremental' problems in m2 because the recompile already gets
done by eclipse itself I assume. E.g. the maven-compiler-plugin until recently failed to detect
cross-class relations and did only recompile the file which got changed. I changed that only
recently.


LieGrue,
strub


>________________________________
> From: Jason van Zyl <jason@tesla.io>
>To: Maven Developers List <dev@maven.apache.org>; Mark Struberg <struberg@yahoo.de>

>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 2:49 PM
>Subject: Re: Removing unused code from maven-shared-utils
> 
>You need to do one thing at time and not conflate the replacement of the plexus-utils
code with anything else you want to implement. Mixing the two will almost certainly lead to
problems.
>
>If you are attempting to remove plexus-utils initially without a binary compatible drop-in
replacement with code from Apache then I'm -1. I'm not going to change that position because
I think you're needlessly causing problems. If you want to replace the code go for it, just
do it safely.
>
>Incremental builds are a separate matter all together and can be done in a branch, we've
had incremental build support in m2e forever and you don't need to massively change the core
at all to do it. In fact it works right now with the core as it is. Put a complete proposal
together (I've seen the initial ideas) because if you think you need to drastically change
the core for incremental builds I believe you are incorrect.
>
>At any rate, one thing at a time. If you want to replace the code in plexus-utils with
something else do that first as a separate, clear endeavor.
>
>On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:40 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>
>> I fear my perspective is pretty different. 
>> 
>> 
>> To _not_ produce a 1:1 drop in replacement gives us a few benefits. Actually it doesn't
matter which version maven itself uses as this wont affect user builds. 
>> 
>> BUT it would _heavily_ affect users if their old builds wont work anymore because
we dropped some ancient signature. 
>> 
>> And there is a well cast technical reason for this change: I need new/improved functionality
for the incremental build.
>> 
>> 
>> My proposal is to move maven itself to a much more progressive/improved version (thus
off plexus-utils) but keep the old signatures and the original plexus-utils around for plugins
which still uses it. 
>> 
>> If a plugin likes to use the new maven-core-utils then this is perfectly possible
as well of course.
>> 
>> LieGrue,
>> strub
>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Jason van Zyl <jason@tesla.io>
>>> To: Maven Developers List <dev@maven.apache.org>; Mark Struberg <struberg@yahoo.de>

>>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 2:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Removing unused code from maven-shared-utils
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If you can create a drop-in replacement for the plexus-utils code go for it.
I believe this exercise is of little value users and you run the real risk of introducing
problems for no technical reason, but if you want to do the work that's your prerogative.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So much time was spent to preserve the existing signatures and behaviour in the
container swap and this is not something to be taken lightly, and you should do what has been
done in the past.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think the path to do this if you want to get rid of the plexus-utils reference
is to reduce the foot print to the classes being used in the core and then drop in that reduced
JAR. Create a replacement with the code you've copied, reimplemented, improved yet binary
compatible and test that for a while. Binary compatible in all respects, package and signature.
And from there then make any subsequent changes.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I honestly am not overly concerned with plugins because they can be fixed relatively
quickly, but doing low value changes in the core for swapping out one set of code for another
is seriously playing with fire.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If you initially are intending to change code in the core to accommodate this
change I see no technical reason for it, is dangerous and I'm -1.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:03 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>>> 
>>> While digging thru the plexus-utils usage I wonder whether we should place the
maven-utils in maven-core or maven-shared.
>>>> 
>>>> maven-core doesn't yet have any maven-shared dependency it seems. Which means
if we like to use them in maven-core as well we should relocate maven-shared-utils to the
maven-3 core module.
>>>> 
>>>> wdyt?
>>>> 
>>>> LieGrue,
>>>> strub
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> 
>>>> From: Kristian Rosenvold <kristian.rosenvold@gmail.com>
>>>>> 
>>>> To: Maven Developers List <dev@maven.apache.org>
>>>>> 
>>>> Cc: 
>>>>> 
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:48 AM
>>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: Removing unused code from maven-shared-utils
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> Well obviously given the current number of failing
>>>>> 
>>>> tests,maven-shared-utils is going nowhere right now ;)
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> I will do a test-migration and remove unused code in
>>>>> 
>>>> org.apache.maven.shared.utils.io before we release.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> Kristian
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> 
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Jason
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> Jason van Zyl
>>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype
>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> 
>>> What matters is not ideas, but the people who have them. Good people can fix
bad ideas, but good ideas can't save bad people. 
>>> 
>>>  -- Paul Graham
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>> 
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jason
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>Jason van Zyl
>Founder & CTO, Sonatype
>Founder,  Apache Maven
>http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>---------------------------------------------------------
>
>happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will
>elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come
>and sit softly on your shoulder ...
>
>-- Thoreau 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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