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Subject: Re: Get thee to the Core...
From: Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimmesq9z5gjoEaHqOuA+uXfLPvH1w@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:45:37 -0700
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References: <526883.51654.qm@web27803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
 <4DF23838.7010401@commonjava.org>
 <BANLkTimmesq9z5gjoEaHqOuA+uXfLPvH1w@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Maven Developers List" <dev@maven.apache.org>

Actually, SLF4J's tie to Ceki's I18n project is one thing I really =
dislike.  IMO, localization should be done at the last possible moment. =
If you really want an internationalized log then you should be logging =
message ids and data and then doing the localization in your log viewer, =
not as you are writing the records.

Ralph

On Jun 10, 2011, at 8:42 AM, Stephen Connolly wrote:

> personally, there are a number of issues I have had with how
> slf4j/logback handles message formatting for i18n... other than the
> logging frameworks I have rolled myself, slf4j is the closest I've
> seen to logging done right... but it is still a bit far off the right
> path...
>=20
> Oh logging why do you have to be so fragmented and crap in java
>=20
> On 10 June 2011 16:28, John Casey <jdcasey@commonjava.org> wrote:
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 6/10/11 3:48 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>>>=20
>>> We partly use slf4j internally already for tests, etc.
>>> But moving the whole Logger mess over to slf4j would be really =
great.
>>> There are lots of tests (I sadly also found productive code too) =
still using
>>> System.out.println.
>>>=20
>>> The question is if we (internally) drop =
org.codehaus.plexus.logging.Logger
>>> completely and use slf4j directly, or if we pimp up the plexus =
Logger and
>>> add various stuff.
>>=20
>> I've been thinking about this for some time now, actually. If you =
look at
>> the MAE stuff in the sandbox, I'm pretty sure that's using log4j =
directly.
>>=20
>> Personally, I don't understand what value the Plexus =
logger/loggermanager
>> has, especially given the configurability of these other logging =
frameworks.
>>=20
>> I'd be in favor of providing a "default" logging configuration file =
in
>> either the Maven app directory or in ~/.m2, and then letting people
>> customize from the command line to highlight specific =
components/packages.
>>=20
>> Although, having said that, one of my pet peeves about the logging
>> frameworks is they haven't shifted to using String.format,
>> MessageFormat.format, or whatever under-the-covers as a way of =
limiting
>> string concatenation in cases where a particular log level has been
>> disabled.
>>=20
>> Even something as simple as the attached code would be a nice facade =
for
>> logging, IMO...but it's more of a wish-list item than anything else.
>>=20
>> In short, yes, let's think about switching to a better logging =
framework. We
>> can deprecate the plexus logger, and eventually get rid of it!
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> We would need to do some compat code anyway, but I'm not sure if it =
pays
>>> off to restrict ourself. At least not after I saw that even the
>>> LoggerManager uses System.err.println:
>>>=20
>>> // TODO: use a logger!
>>> System.err.println( "There was no such logger '" + key + "' " + =
hashCode()
>>> + "." );
>>>=20
>>> dumdidum :)
>>>=20
>>> LieGrue,
>>> strub
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --- On Fri, 6/10/11, Ralph Goers<ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>  wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> From: Ralph Goers<ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: Get thee to the Core...
>>>> To: "Maven Developers List"<dev@maven.apache.org>
>>>> Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 5:03 AM
>>>>=20
>>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> I'd like to offer a small suggestion.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> One of the big barriers to maven happiness is the
>>>>=20
>>>> difficulty of
>>>>>=20
>>>>> understanding, in some cases, why it does what it
>>>>=20
>>>> does.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> This suggests to me three efforts that might offer an
>>>>=20
>>>> opportunity to
>>>>>=20
>>>>> learn core code without drowning.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 1: take up slf4j, and thus allow component (indeed
>>>>=20
>>>> class) by component
>>>>>=20
>>>>> log control as an alternative to the giant -X spew.
>>>>=20
>>>> Now that is an interesting idea. For the past year I have
>>>> been working on creating Log4j 2.0 pretty much by
>>>> myself.  This would be a great way to integrate it into
>>>> something useful.
>>>>=20
>>>> Ralph
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> =
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>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
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>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> =
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
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>>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>> John Casey
>> Developer, PMC Member - Apache Maven (http://maven.apache.org)
>> Blog: http://www.johnofalltrades.name/
>>=20
>>=20
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>=20
>=20
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>=20


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