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From Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com>
Subject Re: Get thee to the Core...
Date Sat, 11 Jun 2011 05:50:07 GMT
Well, I could use feedback on https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/logging/log4j/branches/BRANCH_2_0_EXPERIMENTAL/rgoers/

On Jun 10, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Stephen Connolly wrote:

> lest anyone think I'm doing NIH, the logging frameworks I have
> implemented myself (they were under commercial license for previous
> employer) were less than perfect, but having seen my mistakes I think
> I have a better handle on the right path to take!
> 
> On 10 June 2011 16:42, Stephen Connolly <stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com> wrote:
>> personally, there are a number of issues I have had with how
>> slf4j/logback handles message formatting for i18n... other than the
>> logging frameworks I have rolled myself, slf4j is the closest I've
>> seen to logging done right... but it is still a bit far off the right
>> path...
>> 
>> Oh logging why do you have to be so fragmented and crap in java
>> 
>> On 10 June 2011 16:28, John Casey <jdcasey@commonjava.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/10/11 3:48 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> We partly use slf4j internally already for tests, etc.
>>>> But moving the whole Logger mess over to slf4j would be really great.
>>>> There are lots of tests (I sadly also found productive code too) still using
>>>> System.out.println.
>>>> 
>>>> The question is if we (internally) drop org.codehaus.plexus.logging.Logger
>>>> completely and use slf4j directly, or if we pimp up the plexus Logger and
>>>> add various stuff.
>>> 
>>> I've been thinking about this for some time now, actually. If you look at
>>> the MAE stuff in the sandbox, I'm pretty sure that's using log4j directly.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I don't understand what value the Plexus logger/loggermanager
>>> has, especially given the configurability of these other logging frameworks.
>>> 
>>> I'd be in favor of providing a "default" logging configuration file in
>>> either the Maven app directory or in ~/.m2, and then letting people
>>> customize from the command line to highlight specific components/packages.
>>> 
>>> Although, having said that, one of my pet peeves about the logging
>>> frameworks is they haven't shifted to using String.format,
>>> MessageFormat.format, or whatever under-the-covers as a way of limiting
>>> string concatenation in cases where a particular log level has been
>>> disabled.
>>> 
>>> Even something as simple as the attached code would be a nice facade for
>>> logging, IMO...but it's more of a wish-list item than anything else.
>>> 
>>> In short, yes, let's think about switching to a better logging framework. We
>>> can deprecate the plexus logger, and eventually get rid of it!
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> We would need to do some compat code anyway, but I'm not sure if it pays
>>>> off to restrict ourself. At least not after I saw that even the
>>>> LoggerManager uses System.err.println:
>>>> 
>>>> // TODO: use a logger!
>>>> System.err.println( "There was no such logger '" + key + "' " + hashCode()
>>>> + "." );
>>>> 
>>>> dumdidum :)
>>>> 
>>>> LieGrue,
>>>> strub
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --- On Fri, 6/10/11, Ralph Goers<ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> From: Ralph Goers<ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Get thee to the Core...
>>>>> To: "Maven Developers List"<dev@maven.apache.org>
>>>>> Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 5:03 AM
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'd like to offer a small suggestion.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One of the big barriers to maven happiness is the
>>>>> 
>>>>> difficulty of
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> understanding, in some cases, why it does what it
>>>>> 
>>>>> does.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This suggests to me three efforts that might offer an
>>>>> 
>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> learn core code without drowning.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1: take up slf4j, and thus allow component (indeed
>>>>> 
>>>>> class) by component
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> log control as an alternative to the giant -X spew.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now that is an interesting idea. For the past year I have
>>>>> been working on creating Log4j 2.0 pretty much by
>>>>> myself.  This would be a great way to integrate it into
>>>>> something useful.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ralph
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> John Casey
>>> Developer, PMC Member - Apache Maven (http://maven.apache.org)
>>> Blog: http://www.johnofalltrades.name/
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>> 
>> 
> 
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> 


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