maven-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From "Clark, Gil W." <Gil_Cl...@intuit.com>
Subject Re: Get thee to the Core...
Date Sat, 11 Jun 2011 16:06:59 GMT
Oops, sorry all.  I was responding to Ralph about logging.  This doesn't
really have much to do with Maven.

On 6/11/11 9:03 AM, "Clark, Gil W." <Gil_Clark@intuit.com> wrote:

>Interesting thread.  So we are using Splunk as our log "viewer" and it has
>built in ability to map message ids to the localized strings.  But, it's
>expensive for Splunk to do this (both in $ and processing time).  So while
>its architecturally more pure it requires a good log viewer that everyone
>has access to.
>
>On 6/10/11 10:45 PM, "Ralph Goers" <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>>Actually, SLF4J's tie to Ceki's I18n project is one thing I really
>>dislike.  IMO, localization should be done at the last possible moment.
>>If you really want an internationalized log then you should be logging
>>message ids and data and then doing the localization in your log viewer,
>>not as you are writing the records.
>>
>>Ralph
>>
>>On Jun 10, 2011, at 8:42 AM, Stephen Connolly wrote:
>>
>>> personally, there are a number of issues I have had with how
>>> slf4j/logback handles message formatting for i18n... other than the
>>> logging frameworks I have rolled myself, slf4j is the closest I've
>>> seen to logging done right... but it is still a bit far off the right
>>> path...
>>> 
>>> Oh logging why do you have to be so fragmented and crap in java
>>> 
>>> On 10 June 2011 16:28, John Casey <jdcasey@commonjava.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 6/10/11 3:48 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> We partly use slf4j internally already for tests, etc.
>>>>> But moving the whole Logger mess over to slf4j would be really great.
>>>>> There are lots of tests (I sadly also found productive code too)
>>>>>still using
>>>>> System.out.println.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The question is if we (internally) drop
>>>>>org.codehaus.plexus.logging.Logger
>>>>> completely and use slf4j directly, or if we pimp up the plexus Logger
>>>>>and
>>>>> add various stuff.
>>>> 
>>>> I've been thinking about this for some time now, actually. If you look
>>>>at
>>>> the MAE stuff in the sandbox, I'm pretty sure that's using log4j
>>>>directly.
>>>> 
>>>> Personally, I don't understand what value the Plexus
>>>>logger/loggermanager
>>>> has, especially given the configurability of these other logging
>>>>frameworks.
>>>> 
>>>> I'd be in favor of providing a "default" logging configuration file in
>>>> either the Maven app directory or in ~/.m2, and then letting people
>>>> customize from the command line to highlight specific
>>>>components/packages.
>>>> 
>>>> Although, having said that, one of my pet peeves about the logging
>>>> frameworks is they haven't shifted to using String.format,
>>>> MessageFormat.format, or whatever under-the-covers as a way of
>>>>limiting
>>>> string concatenation in cases where a particular log level has been
>>>> disabled.
>>>> 
>>>> Even something as simple as the attached code would be a nice facade
>>>>for
>>>> logging, IMO...but it's more of a wish-list item than anything else.
>>>> 
>>>> In short, yes, let's think about switching to a better logging
>>>>framework. We
>>>> can deprecate the plexus logger, and eventually get rid of it!
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> We would need to do some compat code anyway, but I'm not sure if it
>>>>>pays
>>>>> off to restrict ourself. At least not after I saw that even the
>>>>> LoggerManager uses System.err.println:
>>>>> 
>>>>> // TODO: use a logger!
>>>>> System.err.println( "There was no such logger '" + key + "' " +
>>>>>hashCode()
>>>>> + "." );
>>>>> 
>>>>> dumdidum :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> LieGrue,
>>>>> strub
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --- On Fri, 6/10/11, Ralph Goers<ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Ralph Goers<ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Get thee to the Core...
>>>>>> To: "Maven Developers List"<dev@maven.apache.org>
>>>>>> Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 5:03 AM
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'd like to offer a small suggestion.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> One of the big barriers to maven happiness is the
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> difficulty of
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> understanding, in some cases, why it does what it
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> does.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This suggests to me three efforts that might offer an
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> learn core code without drowning.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 1: take up slf4j, and thus allow component (indeed
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> class) by component
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> log control as an alternative to the giant -X spew.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Now that is an interesting idea. For the past year I have
>>>>>> been working on creating Log4j 2.0 pretty much by
>>>>>> myself.  This would be a great way to integrate it into
>>>>>> something useful.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> John Casey
>>>> Developer, PMC Member - Apache Maven (http://maven.apache.org)
>>>> Blog: http://www.johnofalltrades.name/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>> 
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org


Mime
View raw message