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From Stephen Connolly <stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Get thee to the Core...
Date Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:43:50 GMT
lest anyone think I'm doing NIH, the logging frameworks I have
implemented myself (they were under commercial license for previous
employer) were less than perfect, but having seen my mistakes I think
I have a better handle on the right path to take!

On 10 June 2011 16:42, Stephen Connolly <stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com> wrote:
> personally, there are a number of issues I have had with how
> slf4j/logback handles message formatting for i18n... other than the
> logging frameworks I have rolled myself, slf4j is the closest I've
> seen to logging done right... but it is still a bit far off the right
> path...
>
> Oh logging why do you have to be so fragmented and crap in java
>
> On 10 June 2011 16:28, John Casey <jdcasey@commonjava.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 6/10/11 3:48 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>>>
>>> We partly use slf4j internally already for tests, etc.
>>> But moving the whole Logger mess over to slf4j would be really great.
>>> There are lots of tests (I sadly also found productive code too) still using
>>> System.out.println.
>>>
>>> The question is if we (internally) drop org.codehaus.plexus.logging.Logger
>>> completely and use slf4j directly, or if we pimp up the plexus Logger and
>>> add various stuff.
>>
>> I've been thinking about this for some time now, actually. If you look at
>> the MAE stuff in the sandbox, I'm pretty sure that's using log4j directly.
>>
>> Personally, I don't understand what value the Plexus logger/loggermanager
>> has, especially given the configurability of these other logging frameworks.
>>
>> I'd be in favor of providing a "default" logging configuration file in
>> either the Maven app directory or in ~/.m2, and then letting people
>> customize from the command line to highlight specific components/packages.
>>
>> Although, having said that, one of my pet peeves about the logging
>> frameworks is they haven't shifted to using String.format,
>> MessageFormat.format, or whatever under-the-covers as a way of limiting
>> string concatenation in cases where a particular log level has been
>> disabled.
>>
>> Even something as simple as the attached code would be a nice facade for
>> logging, IMO...but it's more of a wish-list item than anything else.
>>
>> In short, yes, let's think about switching to a better logging framework. We
>> can deprecate the plexus logger, and eventually get rid of it!
>>
>>>
>>> We would need to do some compat code anyway, but I'm not sure if it pays
>>> off to restrict ourself. At least not after I saw that even the
>>> LoggerManager uses System.err.println:
>>>
>>> // TODO: use a logger!
>>> System.err.println( "There was no such logger '" + key + "' " + hashCode()
>>> + "." );
>>>
>>> dumdidum :)
>>>
>>> LieGrue,
>>> strub
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 6/10/11, Ralph Goers<ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Ralph Goers<ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: Get thee to the Core...
>>>> To: "Maven Developers List"<dev@maven.apache.org>
>>>> Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 5:03 AM
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to offer a small suggestion.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the big barriers to maven happiness is the
>>>>
>>>> difficulty of
>>>>>
>>>>> understanding, in some cases, why it does what it
>>>>
>>>> does.
>>>>>
>>>>> This suggests to me three efforts that might offer an
>>>>
>>>> opportunity to
>>>>>
>>>>> learn core code without drowning.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1: take up slf4j, and thus allow component (indeed
>>>>
>>>> class) by component
>>>>>
>>>>> log control as an alternative to the giant -X spew.
>>>>
>>>> Now that is an interesting idea. For the past year I have
>>>> been working on creating Log4j 2.0 pretty much by
>>>> myself.  This would be a great way to integrate it into
>>>> something useful.
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>> --
>> John Casey
>> Developer, PMC Member - Apache Maven (http://maven.apache.org)
>> Blog: http://www.johnofalltrades.name/
>>
>>
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>>
>

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