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From Jim Jagielski <>
Subject Re: PMC change explanation?
Date Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:02:25 GMT
Jason, all I can say in response is that I am impressed with
both your reinterpretation of history as well as the size
of your stugots in somehow placing the "blame" on the board
and myself.

We have made incredible progress, and your sweeping and baseless
arguments are impeding and damaging that. I would encourage
you to, for the benefit of the community, restrain yourself.

On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:

> Jim,
> Your misunderstanding of someone else's point of view and dismissing it out of hand without
any further discussion is what got us here in the first place. You have no problems ignoring
whatever you feel like which generally makes it hard to arrive at a resolution. Your job as
an ASF Board member is to facilitate discussion not stifle it. It is your repeated canceling
of face to face meetings and lack of communication over the span of months that has left us
where we are. You shirk your responsibility as the board member primarily responsible for
this debacle and then basically refuse to be accountable by just saying you're going to ignore
me. If you want to ignore me that's fine, but don't ignore the problem you've heavily contributed
to forming. I don't need to be involved but the board, Mark Struberg (who appears to be responsible
now from the Maven PMC side), Larry and Wayne can get this resolved with one call. Then it's
done and we can move forward and do what's best for the Maven project and more importantly
Maven users.
> On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:16 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> The below shows that you are extremely out of touch regarding
>> what has been going on. As such, I have no problems with
>> ignoring it.
>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:55 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>>> The bottom line is that this is likely easy to resolve very quickly. A call between
a representative Apache board member, a Sonatype representative, and a secretary to agree
on the actions, and carry them out. That seems like a pretty easy plan of action. Anything
else just says to me that the board doesn't really care what happens to the Maven project.
I think Sonatype has been reasonable, I think I can even dig up an email that says your legal
counsel thinks we have been reasonable. Just put the issue to rest and one of you call Wayne.
It's absurd that it's come to this. The Apache Board can put this issue to rest, or permanently
screw the project. I don't think it's in anyone else's hands really except the Apache Board.
>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:22 AM, Doug Cutting wrote:
>>>> On 06/17/2011 03:03 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>>>>> What Sonatype was seeking was the use of "Maven Central" as a service
>>>>> mark in very much the same way Doug Cutting's company, Cloudera, has
>>>>> been granted a memorandum of understanding (MOU) for the service mark
>>>>> "Hadoop World". 
>>>> That's a separate issue from the "Maven" software product trademark.
>>>> Let's please not confuse them.  The action I described and the
>>>> attribution the ASF seeks is related to the product trademark, not any
>>>> service mark.
>>>>> ... Cloudera, a company founded by Doug Cutting ...
>>>> FWIW, I am not a Cloudera founder, just an employee.
>>>> Doug
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jason
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> Jason van Zyl
>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>> What matters is not ideas, but the people who have them. Good people can fix
bad ideas, but good ideas can't save bad people. 
>>> -- Paul Graham
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> Thanks,
> Jason
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder,  Apache Maven
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Selfish deeds are the shortest path to self destruction.
>  -- The Seven Samuari, Akira Kurosawa

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