maven-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From tbee <>
Subject Re: custom maven plugin default phase
Date Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:41:15 GMT

Hm. There is a tad too much assumption in that previous post. First let me
introduce myself; 15 years ago I graduated with honors from a software
engineering study. I've done everything from C, Cobol, lowlevel embedded
systems and assembly (I worked on one of the first mobile GPS hardware),
Pascal, Miranda, ObjectiveC to Java and DotNet. (I always steered clear of
C++ ;-) In project ranging from local webshops to full ERP systems and
software for banks and insurances. Using all the build systems and source
control revision that came with them. I know my way around.

Secondly, let me repeat that Maven is a great concept and that I have no
intention whatsoever to discredit it. All I did was bring forward some of my
experiences with my attempt on migrating to Maven.

The migration to Maven is not because I want to migrate one of my projects;
I'm setting up the development toolchain for our company, using one of our
more complex projects as the testcase.

I've initially tested Maven 2 about half year ago, and I found it complex.
The basic rule I always follow is that if I assume myself as being average,
then there will be others that will find it complex as well. If the average
user finds it complex, then it on average is complex.

In my first attempt I really understood the basic goal of Maven; default
directory structure, default build phases, almost nothing to configure if
you stick to the standard. However, real life usage showed me that Maven may
not be as easy to grasp for the casual user. I don't want them thinking
about the build, it just has to work, also if they start a new project. That
is why I decided to examine other approaches, not because I want Maven to do
whatever I want, because I -as the average user- found it fairly complex. 

These other approaches had their drawbacks as well, and that is why I came
full circle back to Maven, but diving deeper now; trying some real world
projects. "Ok, so it may be hard to fully grasp, but if I can set it up so
the others won't really have to think about it, it'll be ok. There are a lot
of advantages to Maven." As you have pointed out; you don't need to sell
Maven, I've come full circle.

But the complexity remains my major hickup; even small projects quickly
become a configuration complexity with execution environments, phases,
goals... No. That must be encapsulated inside the plugins. Yes, software
building can be complex, but it shouldn't be this quickly. I'm not even
using parent pom's, just simple artifacts. My coders need to think: "I need
A, I include A-plugin and it works". 

And that is what I mean with its the EJB2ness. (I still think it's a good
metaphore.) EJB2 also exposes too much of its innards. 

I've read the sheets on Maven 3 and it looks promissing; I'm reading what
I'm looking for. Extention points, plugin, mixin... Maybe I'm simply trying
just a minute too soon.

View this message in context:
Sent from the Maven Developers mailing list archive at

To unsubscribe, e-mail:
For additional commands, e-mail:

View raw message