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From Robert Scholte <rfscho...@codehaus.org>
Subject Re: User's project-specific properties ability disabled after MNG-4060
Date Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:48:56 GMT

With the alpha releases of Maven 3 published we'll see how developers react
on this issue.
I've introduced Maven during several projects and my experience is that
newbies fear the settings.xml. They let a pro setup their settings.xml for
the repository and from that moment on it's an avoided territory. 
This means that the personal project-settings shall be resolved in the
pom.xml. One profile entry per developer if I'm pessimistic. Ok, maybe
combined with a filter-file it's somehow acceptable, but that requires
variables in your pom for everything a developer wants to modify personal.
>From an architectural point of view I can imagine that the profiles.xml is
somehow a strange mechanism. But from a developers point of view (Jason, I
read your articles about Paving the desire lines) I believe it's a strong
concept. It just gives you the force on the right spot, personalize the
project/pom at your own risk.
Let's see some other responses and maybe we could reanimate the profiles.xml

cheers,

Robert


Bugzilla from mkleint@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Jason van Zyl <jason@maven.org> wrote:
> 
>>
>> On 2009-11-27, at 7:45 AM, Milos Kleint wrote:
>>
>>  On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Jason van Zyl <jason@maven.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 2009-11-27, at 5:55 AM, Milos Kleint wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Robert here.
>>>>
>>>>> removal of profiles.xml file leaves maven with no non-sharable,
>>>>> per-project
>>>>> configuration option. I"ve added my example to
>>>>> the issue http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MNG-4060.
>>>>> It would be doable with settings.xml but it would be uber-cumbersome
>>>>> to
>>>>> do
>>>>> so.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> I think an activator for a gav would work nicely.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> if there is such a thing, yes, it would help. But then after each
>>> release,
>>> you have to tinker with the activators.
>>>
>>>
>> Then just G:A would do the trick.
> 
> 
> ...unless you decide to work on a code branch with different settings
> then.
> 
> 
> Milos
> 
> 
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It could partly work, but only when you work on one set of projects
>>>>
>>>>> only, or keep on  switching the settings file and have a separate copy
>>>>> for
>>>>> each project (or set of projects).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  The profiles.xml made the internals extremely convoluted and hard to
>>>> test.
>>>> Most of the use cases I've seen are resolved by settings.xml and that
>>>> can
>>>> be
>>>> made to be more intelligent to actually scope the profile in
>>>> settings.xml
>>>> to
>>>> a specific project would effectively be the same thing, or the project
>>>> needed to be decomposed into smaller projects.
>>>>
>>>> I'm fine with profiles.xml but you'll need to do the work to integrate
>>>> that
>>>> back into the project builder and build up the integration tests. I'm
>>>> not
>>>> interested in this work as I honestly don't think it's necessary. There
>>>> are
>>>> tests enough there to catch anything so you can do the work and know if
>>>> you've disturbed any other part of the system so you should be good to
>>>> go
>>>> if
>>>> you want to add this support back in.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Which just translates to "no". fair enough.
>>>
>>>
>> Not at all. It means I'm not interested in that feature. So yes that
>> might
>> translate into it's unlikely Benjamin, myself or Igor aren't going to
>> work
>> on it but there's nothing stopping you from adding the support. As long
>> as
>> all the ITs pass and the performance doesn't degrade have at it.
>>
>>
>>  Milos
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Milos
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Robert Scholte
>>>>> <rfscholte@codehaus.org
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  I didn't say it's not possible without profiles.xml, but without it
>>>>> you
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to make a choice between the best of the worst.
>>>>>> Let's stick to the passwords. You don't want to expose them in the
>>>>>> pom.xml,
>>>>>> right?
>>>>>> But what if project A en project B both have a ${password} in their
>>>>>> pom.xml,
>>>>>> from the settings.xml you can't figure out which password to use,
>>>>>> UNLESS
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> have to keep settings the specific profile per project. Not really
>>>>>> nice.
>>>>>> But let me reverse the question. Why was the profiles.xml introduced
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> what made it the team to say goodbye to this file?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BRIAN FOX-5 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, the mixin support should cover the profiles.xml and
>>>>>>> more....even
>>>>>>> better it should be possible to resolve the mixins from the
>>>>>>> repository
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> means they are versioned and deployed artifacts like everything
>>>>>>> else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Robert Scholte
>>>>>>> <rfscholte@codehaus.org>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  In the settings.xml it's not possible to activate a profile
by
>>>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>>> again: I believe settings.xml are actually maven-settings
and not
>>>>>>>> project-settings. For most users it's a big step to dive
into the
>>>>>>>> settings.xml. For them there are only a few reasons to access
the
>>>>>>>> settings
>>>>>>>> file:
>>>>>>>> - to setup a proxy repository like nexus (which is often
done by a
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> experienced user)
>>>>>>>> - to set username+pw for a specific server.
>>>>>>>> If they don't have to touch the file then leave it, 'cause
changes
>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>> might break maven.
>>>>>>>> And a user-specific project-profile has to be located on
a very
>>>>>>>> logic
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  easy to access location, so the best option is next to the pom I
>>>>>>> guess.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert Scholte
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BRIAN FOX-5 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why not just put those values into the settings.xml?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 4:31 AM, Robert Scholte<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  rfscholte@codehaus.org>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I heard some time ago that the profiles.xml were
removed in
>>>>>>>>>> Maven3.
>>>>>>>>>> Although I'm still using 2.1.0 I want to be prepared
for such
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  changes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  IMHO I think it's a bad choice to remove this option.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maven should provide some sort of way where developers
can
>>>>>>>>>> set/change
>>>>>>>>>> project properties without having to change the pom.xml.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I believe the pom should not contain developer-specific
>>>>>>>>>> properties
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  which can or will end up in any scm. Think of datasource-properties.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are three degrees of properties:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - the global properties (combined with the
>>>>>>>>>> activeByDefault-profile)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - profile-properties (where profiles cover multiple
users. By OS,
>>>>>>>>>> 'stage')
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - personal properties.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> These personal properties can only be used with a
personal
>>>>>>>>>> profile.
>>>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>>>> personal profile is the best example of data which
doesn´t belong
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  pom but in a separate file (and probably not in scm).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Personal properties should be somewhere close to
the project,
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  root of the project (yes, like the profiles.xml).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The both settings.xml is too far from the project
and there's no
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  option
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  in the (user's) settings.xml to set project-specific properties.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think that if there was a vote concerning this
issue it might
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  result
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  a long discussion. It's never too late for that, so let's
give it
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  try.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download
today
>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  FREE!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/User%27s-project-specific-properties-ability-disabled-after-MNG-4060-tp24183522p24190525.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Sent from the Maven Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/User%27s-project-specific-properties-ability-disabled-after-MNG-4060-tp24183522p24209431.html
>>>>>> Sent from the Maven Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>>
> 
> 

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