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From Lukas Theussl <ltheu...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Maven 2.1.0 and Doxia
Date Tue, 03 Mar 2009 08:15:16 GMT

Hi John,

If you would have used the time it took you to write this email for installing and 
testing Doxia 1.1 you probably wouldn't have to ask anymore if it's a terrible 
idea. ;)

I also don't see a compelling reason for upgrading now. As I didn't 5 weeks ago. 
Or the week before that.

Neither do I want to pretend that there is anything in Doxia 1.1 that we 
absolutely cannot live without, - even though I certainly hope that there are a 
couple of new things that a lot of people will be happy about.

However, the main point is that I also see no reason for NOT upgrading now (as I 
do not accept your FUD arguments). A few people have now taken their time to test 
1.1 and have provided positive feedback (Brett, Herve, Wendy). Doxia 1.1 (then 
beta-1) was present in the 2.0.x core for 4 months [1], unfortunately it was 
reverted for the 2.0.10 release [2] for reasons that I do not recall, at least I 
do not remember that any problems ever cropped up. If you would have told me last 
Oct that 2.0.10 was about to be released we could have pushed Doxia 1.1 then. We 
are going to do it now.

1.1 is NOT under development anymore, it hasn't been for at least over a year. All 
we did was small bug fixes and enhancements that came along on the way because 
there was nothing else to do.


As for the improvements you propose, it certainly sounds good and all, and IIUC 
along the lines of what Jason is planning for Maven 3 [3], but as long as there is 
nothing concrete on the table I don't see why we shouldn't use what we have now 
(ie Doxia 1.1).

Cheers,
-Lukas


[1] http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=662398
[2] http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=705070
[3] http://www.nabble.com/Merging-with-XWiki-and-WikiModel-td21735399.html


John Casey wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I know we've talked a bit about this already, but I'm still left with 
> some questions. The most important of which is:
> 
> What exactly is the plan for Doxia and Maven 2.1.0? Who's doing what to 
> push this along?
> 
> I'm looking at the recent history of our attempt to get a Maven 2.1.0 
> release ready to go, and I see that we've been talking about including a 
> new release of Doxia for quite some time now....but where is the 
> release? It looks like Doxia is still under development for 1.1, so I 
> guess I'm just wondering:
> 
> 1. What compelling reason do we have to upgrade Doxia in Maven 2.1.0? I 
> understand that there's a largish assortment of plugins that cannot 
> upgrade until Maven does...but what is in Doxia 1.1 that we can't live 
> without until the next release of Maven (by which time - HOPEFULLY - 
> Doxia would have been released and in the wild for some time)?
> 
> 2. Is there a good reason why we can't publish a minimal set of 
> interfaces and exceptions that are shared between Maven and Doxia, such 
> that we could peg Maven to a version of that API and Doxia could 
> maintain compatibility with that API, and specific versions of Doxia 
> used in Maven could be a little more fluid?
> 
> For example, if the Site plugin were to instantiate the Doxia bits and 
> pass them through the Maven core to the report plugins...can we make it 
> so Maven core doesn't have much to do with it, and the site 
> plugin/report plugins can be the ones to respond to new Doxia releases?? 
> If we could agree on a minimal API artifact and just get that released 
> ASAP, it seems like we could upgrade to Doxia 1.1 after the core 2.1.0 
> release either through plugin-level deps or a new release of the site 
> plugin.
> 
> I'm probably naive, but why aren't we moving in this direction?
> 
> I'm venting because I'm a little frustrated that this conversation came 
> up back in August and here we are talking about it again...and again, we 
> have no released version of Doxia to consume. So, we're in a position of 
> rushing out a release of Doxia so we can push an unproven dependency 
> into Maven just in time for a release. Doesn't this seem like a terrible 
> idea to anyone else? Doxia isn't a small system like plexus-utils or 
> plexus-ant-factory; judging from the length of its recent release 
> cycles, it's much more complicated.
> 
> If we really are stuck with this sort of lock-step release cycle, isn't 
> there something we can do right now, before releasing maven, doxia, or 
> what-have-you, that would improve (solve?) the situation for next time?
> 
> Sorry for the gruffness, but it doesn't seem like we're taking steps to 
> fix the underlying situation between Maven and Doxia...
> 
> -john
> 
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