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From "Jesse Kuhnert" <>
Subject Re: [RANT] This Maven thing is killing us....
Date Tue, 04 Jul 2006 13:42:25 GMT
Please, let's not go overboard....Ant is nice like c is nice when you need
to get small things done. If you have to maintain very large projects with
varying releases/users/etc maven is a much better choice. Even with its
current flaws. =p

On 7/4/06, Steve Loughran <> wrote:
> Carlos Sanchez wrote:
> > The repository is as good as the users/projects make it. There's no
> > difference at all with using ant and including the wrong jars, maybe
> > the problem is that how to fix it in maven is not as easy as in ant.
> >
> > If project A says it depends on B 1.0 and C says it depends on B 1.1,
> > there's a conflict in Maven, Ant and anything you want to use, the
> > difference is that Maven tries to do it for you, but you still can
> > override that behaviour.
> >
> It seems to me that the difference in ant, the duty to set up your
> classpath belongs to the project alone, so you, the build.xml author are
> the only one who can make a mess of your CP.
> However, on any system with transitive dependencies, you are ceding
> control of your classpath to other programs out there. Even if you think
> you know exactly what the dependency graph of your app is, an update to
> a new version of any your dependencies can pull in new metadata, with a
> new set of dependencies, and potentially a new classpath.
> This is not a maven-specific problem; anything that supports transitive
> dependency logic can suffer from it. Gump and Ivy could, though in both
> cases the descriptors tend to be hand-written tuned to not exhibit the
> problem. (in gump most projects dont export dependencies, as the default
> is compile-time-only).
> > Right now we are in a good position with a huge number of users trying
> > and testing the metadata in the repository, and forcing projects to
> > support maven by providing good data.
> That still assumes that transitive dependencies are a good thing, and
> that perfect metadata is achievable. I'm not sure about either of those.
> I also think they're straying dangerously close to one of the big
> software engineering tar-pits: versioning.
> -steve
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Jesse Kuhnert
Tacos/Tapestry, team member/developer

Open source based consulting work centered around

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