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From nick.minute...@bnpparibas.com
Subject Re: Maven web site and Wiki ? Nice idea - but I would prefer a release
Date Mon, 09 Jun 2003 19:59:00 GMT



Hi Chaps,

I apolagise in advance if I have missed some essential past discussion on
my following topic. From past experience on the mailing list, my topic has
been a recurring one. Forgive me if I am flogging a dead horse - or if I am
re-hashing a settled issue. Please post a link if I missed it.

I have just returned to working with Maven after being buried in other work
for the past few months, and I have to say I am dismayed that there is
still no stable release  - and at the same time there is talk of maven-new,
wiki/xdoc integration, a new POM and a host of other features.

Now, of all the discussions I have had with *anyone* about maven, I have
never yet had a discussion where someone says to me "Yes, I really like
maven but there are not enough features for me". Maven is brimming with
features! However, the recurring feedback I get is "when is that project
ever going to stabilise enough so I can use it?"

I am starting to sympathise with their concerns. We are still putting up
with a patched (but broken) B7 - every time we have tried to move to a new
release there have been some show-stopping problems (site generation was
broken in B8, there was some other problem with B9 which sorry, I dont
remember what it was - it was also raised by others on the mailing list).

Maven is an excellent tool. The amount of effort that has gone into it is
impressive. Whats more it has a huge amount of potential. None of which I
see being negatively impacted by a stable release based on current
functionality.

Maybe I am way off base, but I really think that the lack of a maintained
release  is starting to turn people away. Call it B10, call it v1.0 -
whatever - I think that most users (myself included) would just like to
download something like V1.0_07 and have it just... work!

Perhaps posting this sort of thing on an OSS mailing list is looking a gift
horse in the mouth - but believe me, my aim is not to whinge - I just want
an easier job selling Maven in my Corp and to others. Whats more I am
prepared to help - if I could just find out whats holding us back from
releasing...

Cheers,
Nick








Extranet
vmassol@pivolis.com - 06/06/2003 12:00


Please respond to dev@maven.apache.org
To:    dev

cc:


Subject:    Maven web site and Wiki


Hi,

Here are some facts:
- Our Maven web site contains lots of inaccuracies and would not suffer
from additional documentation
- Some Maven users would be happy to contribute if we gave them easy
tools for that.

The idea:

- Transform our web site from a static web site into a Wiki web site.
- But not any wiki! One that saves topics in XML format. For example the
MoinMoin wiki saves topic in xdocs format (stylebook style unfortunately
but that's not too far from our xdocs format and could probably be
easily modified )
- Second step: hook the wiki to CVS so that modifications are saved in
our Maven CVS, directly in xdocs format. This is possible with MoinMoin
and probably with others too.
- Note: The MoinMoin wiki also has a "comment" field that could be used
as the CVS commit message. We could force the need to have a non-blank
text if we wish to make sure there are commit messages.
- We get automatically CVS email notifications whenever pages are
modified and we can thus easily control the changes made to the wiki and
correct when and if needed.

Conclusion:
- We keep the advantage of our xdocs
- We can still edit xdocs directly should we wish
- Anyone can contribute easily to the documentation and we get good and
up to date Maven documentation.

If we agree, there are things to do:
- We need to find a machine where the wiki could run (it could be a
machine provided by a Friend Of Maven or an Apache one if there's one
available)
- We need someone to look at MoinMoin (or another wiki) to perform the
following:
  - find how to hook it to CVS
  - find how to change the default style to be the Maven style
(stylesheet)
  - find how to modify the DTD so that the xdocs are in the Maven xdocs
format
  - find how to define where xdocs are saved in CVS so that we try to
match the existing locations of xdocs
- We need a Wiki admin

What do you think?

Thanks
-Vincent


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