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From Sean Owen <>
Subject Re: Cloudera announces Oryx
Date Tue, 12 Nov 2013 18:51:44 GMT
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Sebastian Schelter <> wrote:
> However, I also cannot understand why Cloudera and you need to start a
> new open source project that in many ways mirrors what mahout offers.
> Why not contribute the algorithm implementations (the computation layer)
> to mahout and built the serving layer as a project on top of that? I
> don't see what would have prevented this, I would think it would have
> been warmly welcomed by this community.
> It is not that this new project creates competition from which users
> will benefit, its exactly the opposite. To me it feels like an
> intentional abandonment of mahout. Instead of giving users a single
> project where we could have united efforts, users now have to choose
> between two things that in general do the same things with each of them
> missing some functionality. In my eyes, users lose here.

I disagree that these are apples-to-apples alternatives. Oryx does a
lot that Mahout doesn't and vice versa. That's the main reason it's a
separate entity.

The Oryx implementation is quite different, even if there is some
overlap. Putting two different implementations of the same thing
alongside each other, when they're not related, doesn't solve a
problem of choice and seems confusing. You could well ask, why is
there a need for a different implementation? that's a different

There is more code today than yesterday not less. At worst, n+1
choices, not n. Nobody removed Mahout code.

I hear an implication that there is no legitimate reason to put energy
into something else. I think it is as fair to ask whether the state of
code and community here have no part in deciding that for people out

> I can also understand Ted's worries about Cloudera's attitude towards
> open source, after having heard Impala's view of "open source" at the
> last Buzzwords (the lead developer of Impala answered the question
> whether Impala accepts patches with the statement that Impala is
> developed by Cloudera engineers and others can only look at the source
> code on github...). I hope that Oryx chooses another path (I also hope
> this for Impala).

It depends if anyone wants to contribute and whether the contribution
makes sense. Whether you like Marcel's stance on open source is a
different and interesting question -- won't engage it here to spare
the list.

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