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From Erik Hatcher <>
Subject Re: Concerns about Maven
Date Mon, 16 Mar 2009 00:36:54 GMT
My $0.02 from the sidelines, Maven sucks as a *build* tool.  I dislike  
it with a passion, or rather, I'm all about Ant myself.

Regarding Mahout, I think it makes sense to let Sean to set up and  
maintain his area with Ant and simply have Maven call to it for  
packaging.  I'm not active with Mahout personally, but if I were, I'd  
not enjoy using Maven.  I don't like Maven anywhere.  But then again,  
I don't rely on "repositories" either, and just prefer a built in  
directory full of .jar files.  I'm a caveman like that.  *grunt*


On Mar 15, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Sean Owen wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Grant Ingersoll  
> <> wrote:
>> The first time is often slower than the rest.
> ~5 minutes the second time which is a lot better indeed -- not
> something I want to run except when releasing but indeed that's mostly
> what it's for.
>> I point IntelliJ at my POM and say "Import Project".  Then, I use  
>> IntelliJ's
>> compilation and tests almost all the time.  The only time I don't  
>> is right
>> before check in, when I want to make sure I didn't mess anything up.
> Am I right in viewing Maven as more of a packaging and release
> management system rather than build tool? sure it happens to do
> compilation but seems like it's a higher-level tool than Ant for
> instance. Ant provides primitives for doing small, custom things but
> little support for larger tasks and concepts.
> I have seen many projects use Ant for all of these tasks of course.
> When you add in IntelliJ, sure, it can be configured to delegate all
> the build, test and deploy mechanics to Ant targets. In practice
> though one still maintains some level of project configuration in the
> IDE project itself. So it is still kind of a two-part build system.
> So bring in Maven instead of Ant -- it's perhaps clear it's harder to
> do the fine-grained / custom work with Maven (by design). But it makes
> sense to use the IDE for that stuff. So I shouldn't feel bad about
> using both Maven and the IDE tools -- there are two roles to fill.
> But we can't really depend on IntelliJ since not everyone uses it. So
> where we need to distribute an automated system to do custom bits of
> work, Ant seems like the natural substitute for this role.
> That's a long way to go to say what perhaps everyone already agrees
> on, that it's OK to use an Ant script here and there if it is
> necessary.
>> I think we can make the taste-web work w/ the POM.  What is it that  
>> you see
>> as lacking in there now?  Try doing "mvn package".  I get a WAR  
>> file now
>> that works, so long as I set my
>> What I don't think we have a great solution for just yet is the  
>> Grouplens
>> example.
> Will go back and try -- perhaps something wasn't installed and that's
> why I could not build a WAR.
> The thing is, the reason that the GroupLens example doesn't work will
> make this bit of fun not work for anybody's code. I feel it's
> important enough to include rather than drop for reasons of build
> system not liking it. I think the issue is that we need to package a
> custom .jar file in the .war and it's hard to do? (Or if that can be
> done I imagine that solves the last problem that was encountered on
> the mailing list.)
> On the other hand I do have a complete patch ready to go here that
> makes it all work -- via Ant that is. The patch also cleans out the
> Ant cruft from trunk/core BTW since it is exactly this stuff that
> needs to move. I'd suggest it's worth going this way to keep things
> working and move ahead with 0.1. My patch removed pom.xml but can put
> it back if it's needed for packaging purposes -- just trying to avoid
> duplicating within it some build logic.
> Happy to hear someone else has an alternate solution but would suggest
> it may not be worthing banging heads against walls for too much.
> Er perhaps I should open a JIRA issue to cover this, plus my draft  
> patch.

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