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From: "Andrew S. Townley" <ast@atownley.org>
In-Reply-To: <4D67B184.8090703@uni-koeln.de>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 14:56:44 +0000
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 <4D67B184.8090703@uni-koeln.de>
To: lucy-user@incubator.apache.org
Subject: [lucy-user] Mostly re: the SWIG part (was Re: [lucy-user] Question
 about query parsing API

Hi Jens,

On 25 Feb 2011, at 1:41 PM, Jens Wille wrote:
>=20
> Andrew S. Townley [2011-02-25 13:41]:
>> If so, is there a way to traverse the query parse tree (or get a
>> callback notification when it matches terms)?  What I need to be
>> able to do is take an arbitrary fulltext search query and then
>> determine whether any search fields have been requested
>> explicitly.  I suppose a more ideal solution would be to have a
>> #target_fields method or something on the query object, but that
>> would just be convenience.
> i understand that problem has been solved in the meantime
> (Ferret::Search::Query#terms, basically)? ;-)

Yes, it seems like you did that as a byproduct of your change to Ferret =
(https://github.com/blackwinter/ferret).  Doubly awesome.  Thanks!

>> Also, I mentioned SWIG in passing the other day in a previous
>> message.  Would it not be possible to just generate the bindings
>> for Ruby with SWIG?
> re SWIG, there was a clarifying statement by marvin humphrey on
> lucy-dev recently:
>=20
> =
<http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-lucy-dev/201102.mbox/%=
3C20110221215214.GA27653@rectangular.com%3E>

Thanks for the pointer.  Archive failure on my part.  However, after =
reading that and this http://s.apache.org/pSd (referenced in the above), =
I understand the rationale, and think it's cool, but am slightly =
concerned about how easy it'll be to get it to generate Ruby.

To the larger Lucy community:

I can't find any documentation about Clownfish other than the above JIRA =
entry.  Is there some discussion/project/docs somewhere?

The advantages of SWIG are that it's pretty widely used, and anyone with =
experience with both the source and the target binding language can =
usually get something working in hours, not days.  It seems to me that =
for lucy to get the adoption it needs to grow communities in other =
circles besides Perl, you need to start doing some marketing about how =
much easier it is for Joe-random-developer to take a Clownfish-enabled =
project and automatically generate the language bindings of their =
choice.

As it stands, it seems that anyone interested in using lucy outside of =
Perl (or actually, just as a C library) needs to:

a) Learn Clownfish
b) Implement Clownfish -> Lang conversion routines (in Perl?)
c) Run it on the lucy source
d) write binding tests
e) tweak bindings and/or conversion, e.g. goto b
f) rinse & repeat

I really like the mechanisms you're using in Clownfish--I really do, but =
it isn't going to matter much (except for KinoSearch/Perl users) if =
there aren't people able to easily create language bindings--no matter =
how much more powerful the plumbing is than SWIG or other approaches.

Please understand I'm not trying to be negative here.  I really want =
Lucy to succeed in its goals.  I'm just trying to get a realistic =
picture of where things are and what's actually involved.  I think =
finishing the incubation process and getting more user and host language =
developer documentation in place (even a few example blog posts) would =
go a long way to attracting some support.  Right now, except for the =
mailing list, lucy's just a black box that sounds like it'll be =
cool--eventually (at least for non-Perl users). ;)

If these documentation resources, Clownfish intro materials or HOW-TO =
guides exist, then please point me to them.  Google wasn't much help =
here, and I've been through the SVN browser several times now with no =
luck.

It seems like the core architecture of Lucy and Clownfish are first-rate =
efforts.  Now, you need to think about the right way to market it so =
that you can build the community.  Again, it looks very much like Lucy =
is the long-term fit for what I'm working on, so I'm very interested in =
how things develop and what I might have to bite off in terms of =
additional work to integrate it at any level (C++ or Ruby) into what I =
have.

Thanks for your time,

ast
--
Andrew S. Townley <ast@atownley.org>
http://atownley.org