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From Marvin Humphrey <>
Subject Re: [lucy-dev] [DISCUSS] Lucy=>Graduation?
Date Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:11:13 GMT
On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 11:33:28AM -0700, Chris Hostetter wrote:
> The only other important question i would wonder about for graduation is 
> community building.  The Lucy community still seems kind of small, so 
> there is a question to consider of wether being under the incubator is 
> (still) helping with the visibility of the project to grow the community, 
> or if near term community growth would be greater if Lucy graduated to a 
> TLP? 

I suspect that Lucy's incubating status hinders community growth.  I don't
think we are reaching many potential recruits via the Incubator we would not
otherwise reach via other Apache channels.  And I think that the incubation
disclaimer plants a seed of doubt in the mind of each newcomer assessing Lucy
and determining whether to get involved.

> FYI: Although I've enjoyed being a mentor/champion for Lucy, I don't 
> really consider myself a Lucy dev or even a user, so I would decline 
> membership on the initial Lucy PMC as part of the graduation.
All good things must come to an end. :)

You've provided us with many thought-provoking and insightful emails over the
last year, Hoss.  We were just discussing how much we liked your post on
"hats" and CPAN releases on #lucy_dev the other day; it was characteristic of
you to identify an unusually difficult situation, think it through, and
parachute in with clarifying input like that.  (To me, it's reminiscent of the
role that Roy Fielding seems to play in the larger Apache organization.)  I
suppose it makes sense for you to part ways with Lucy on graduation, but it
will be a challenge for us to govern the project in your absence as well as
steadily and effectively as it was governed while you were here.  Others
community members will have to step up.

I don't know whether you will go on to volunteer as a Mentor for other
Incubator projects, but you're both knowledgable and talented and we've been
very fortunate to have you.

> Assuming Marvin is ok with being VP, i think that's fine for graduation; 
> but given the significant role Marvin has played historicaly, it would 
> probably be a good idea to plan on switching the Chair to someone else 
> after no more then a year -- not because of the Chair's 
> roles/responsibility to the project are so critical, but because giving 
> the job to someone else in the Lucy community helps them learn more about 
> the higher levels of the ASF process; like dealing with the board, etc....


I'm honored to be suggested as a candidate for VP and I accept the nomination,
but I believe it is in the best interest of the project that I leave that role
sooner rather than later.  There are plenty of other people on the PPMC who
are capable of serving as VP.

> Speaking of switching the chair: even if graduation is a month or two off, 
> now is a good time to start thinking about the specifics of the "Lucy 
> Charter" to put forth as part of the graduation resolution to the board 
> and any "Lucy Bylaws" that the project wnats to have as a TLP.  
> It seems like 99% of projects just cut/paste the resolution template, and 
> 99% of projects don't ever write any project bylaws -- and that's "ok" -- 
> but if Lucy wants to spell out some rules of how the project shall be run 

> (like "The Lucy PMC SHALL hold a vote for the Lucy Chair once a year" or 

Hey, that sounds like a good idea.  +1

> "All contributers who are voted to be Lucy committers SHALL be offered 
> membership on the Lucy PMC", etc...)

I've thought hard about this subject, and I've decided that I prefer the
traditional divide between committers and PMC members.  My rationale is that
commit bits should be cheap, and therefore we shouldn't require ourselves to
make a costly assessment as to whether someone would make a good PMC member
when offering them a commit bit.

Marvin Humphrey

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