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From Robert Muir <>
Subject Re: or-user perspective, teams, etc (was: Comments on ORP Wiki Additions ?)
Date Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:47:05 GMT
remember i dont speak in any way/represent any apache project when i say the
things below, its just my personal opinion:

Robert, I'm just guessing here, that your response might be "Well then, we
> don't need those @%#$ anyway", or "then I would never work with a commercial
> vendor that had such ridiculous restrictions".  Am I guessing that right?

yes, if some vendor wants me to sign some EULA that says they own my
documents, my beer, or my garage if I use their search engine, then you are
completely right, I'm not going to touch their search engine, i'm not going
to care if any relevance contribution I contribute is biased against them,
its not worth my time.

in general i don't see why it has to be a competition anyway, e.g. i don't
waste time comparing any relevance scores from lucene to other search
engines really, i do look at some published results to make sure i am in the
right ballpark, but i guess how good or bad someone else does is N/A.

> If so, that's a perfectly logical and defensible stance!  Sadly it's not a
> my company can adopt.  The reality is we need to interact with the top
> players whether they are reasonable or not.

I do not think this is necessarily the case as far as relevance goes, that
commercial companies are the 'top players'.  Do you have any evidence to
support this?

> But the GOOD NEWS is that ORP might offer some real benefits to them, and
> some vendors are really quite reasonable and logical at times.

I agree, and said vendors should participate, I agree also we need to work
really hard to not be biased towards lucene... this doesn't logically
contradict my previous statement that 'i dont care if i am biased towards
some specific ridiculous vendor X'.

The main reason I don't want us to be biased towards lucene, is so that
results are not biased towards lucene's status quo, else we won't want to
able to properly judge potential improvements. So I really do care a lot
about this.

if you know of a way to sucker in non-ridiculous commercial guys into
contributing stuff to JIRA, then please proceed :)

As an example, when potential customers have a "search engine bake off" the
> vendors may not have full visibility into the internal process, since the
> customer has privacy concerns too.  Since there could be large sums of money
> riding on it, vendors get anxious, and then some might start imagining all
> sorts of 'unfairness'" - this is just human nature in most cases.  But ORP
> is out in the open, so 'fair' or not, at least they can fully understand the
> criteria, and respond in detail if they feel slighted.
> Good stuff Robert!
> Mark

Robert Muir

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