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From henrib <hen...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Designing a multilingual index
Date Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:00:33 GMT

Hi David,


pagod wrote:
> 
> ... apply only in a particular situation:
> 
Very true, as often in the IR field :-) ; in our case, the "same" document
existed in different locales; these were localized technical docs which also
meant the dictionary (of important) terms was limited and used to influence
scoring.


pagod wrote:
> 
> 
> henrib wrote:
>> 
>> This allowed to have the same index structure across locales but
>> different settings for each (synonyms, stemmers, etc). Maintenance was
>> easier this way; when refining/updating the settings (say adding synonyms
>> or stemmers for instance), you may need to reindex and smaller indices
>> allow faster deployments.
>> 
> If I understand this correctly, that is true if you're indexing distinct
> collections of documents that are all in the same language, which you know
> in advance. In that case, you would of course only need to reindex one of
> these collections into the corresponding index to update it.
> 
Correct.

pagod wrote:
> 
>  In my case though, there is no such separation and only upon processing a
> document can I decide what language it is in. I therefore cannot decide to
> update only documents in one language, it's a "all or nothing". 
> 
As you write later, you perform language detection on the document before
you index. Thus you know - the virtue of one lang <=> one index - in which
index a given document needs to be put and can maintain the list of
documents that exist for a given language (intrinsically, those in the 'FR'
index are all in French). Pending you still have access to the raw content,
you can then reindex just those.


pagod wrote:
> 
> 
> henrib wrote:
>> 
>> It's also "dead-easy" to add a new language (esp. compared to the one
>> index solution).
>> 
> I'm not really sure why adding new languages should be complicated in the
> one-index solution: the languages I can process (i.e. languages for which
> I have recognition data and the proper analyzer) are listed in a
> configuration file. 
> 
Smart solution! With Solr, if you need to add a new field/language that was
not in the original schema/list, you need to reindex the whole. In the
multi-index solution, you just need to create a new index (Solr core).

pagod wrote:
>  
> Upon recognizing one of these languages, the module stores it in the
> internal data structure, which is then eventually passed to the indexing
> module. The latter retrieves the language from the structure and uses it
> to create the corresponding fields in the index dynamically (e.g.
> "content-de", "title-en" etc). It's all really automatic. 
> 
Ok. I'm biased by Solr which needs a schema defining all fields before hand;
you can't just decide to add a document which "declares" a new field. You
need a new schema / index / core that declares the field, etc...


pagod wrote:
> 
> 
> henrib wrote:
>> It also makes replication or partitioning easier.
> Not sure what you mean by that... 
> 
Our solution was built on top Solr; all the query rewriting/expansion was
occurring before Solr localized searches. Since our server was sending the
queries and formatting the results, it was very easy to put indexes on
different machines. Solr also comes with replication and sharding (if you
need those); having multiple indexes makes things a tad easier to configure
wrt number of speakers of a given language.  


pagod wrote:
> 
> So if I understand correctly you'd always only search in one of the
> indices? In that case, I can understand why the multi-index solution works
> better for you. However, assuming most of my users speak at least English
> *and* one, two or three of the other languages, all searches have to be
> conducted in all languages.
> 
We were issuing one query per language the user selected as able to
comprehend. So if you spoke English, German and French, 3 queries were
performed. So, yes, all searches have to be conducted in all needed
languages.


pagod wrote:
> 
>  Besides, the various languages are not localized versions of the same
> content, they may really be anything in any language, depending on the
> person who wrote them and their mood at the time of writing. Some
> documents also contains parts in English and parts in German... I'm
> definitely thinking about making it possible to enable/disable some
> languages, but parallel searching will definitely be required. 
> 
Mixed language documents is not something I had to cope with... But I
suppose whatever solution you'll use to chunk which part of the doc is in
which language can be used by both indexing solutions.

pagod wrote:
> 
>> Besides, IMO, scoring / ordering documents in different
>> languages is a bit like comparing apples and oranges.
> ...Lucene's ranking algorithm is based on the number of tokens and the
> number of occurrences in fields,...
> 
Scoring is indeed a complex issue; tf/idf is not the sole scoring method
(BM25F comes to mind). The score being a ratio (/ best score), taking a
practical stance over academic, you can still use it as an ordering norm for
the sake of a better user experience even if it comes from different
indexes. You might also want to bias results ordering with other factors
like last-updated, ranking, etc.


pagod wrote:
> 
>> Finally, query expansion can also be used in the multiple indices case
>> and
>> might even use automated/guided translation.
> I do agree about that, and I guess query expansion is much easier when
> dealing with a single, consistent index structure. I'm thinking writing an
> algorithm to automatically expand a query to all languages might be ok,
> but I'm worried about the performance of performing such a query if the
> number of languages grows larger....
> 
This algo would work for single & multiple indexes; at least in the multiple
index case, you can partition easily and would the need arise, put localized
indexes on different machines.


pagod wrote:
> 
> One other problem I'm seeing with the multi-index solution is the ranking
> of documents that are spanned across several indices (multilingual
> documents). If say my search term matches a document in the English index
> and the same document in the French index (which would quite often be the
> case for e.g. proper names), then how do I get about mixing the two
> rankings? (as I don't want to display the same result twice) I think using
> a single index would solve that problem, since the ranking would already
> take all fields (hence all languages into account).
> 
If we consider a unique id for the same doc in different indexes (another
Solr recommended feature), nothing stops you from aggregating the scores
coming from each index (a weighted average for instance).

Anyway, I'm relating an experience in a field that might be too different
from yours to be applicable.
Hope it helps.
Cheers,
Henrib

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