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Message-ID: <85d3c3b60809031550jc4d6edeu999ab0c7858129f2@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 18:50:34 -0400
From: "Jason Rutherglen" <jason.rutherglen@gmail.com>
To: solr-dev@lucene.apache.org, solr-user@lucene.apache.org
Subject: Re: Realtime Search for Social Networks Collaboration
Cc: java-user@lucene.apache.org, java-dev@lucene.apache.org
In-Reply-To: <c68e39170809031356r11eb387apff24a9411d183b31@mail.gmail.com>
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References: <85d3c3b60809031220t206bdf42m3026d4fbb6f7d3dd@mail.gmail.com>
	 <c68e39170809031356r11eb387apff24a9411d183b31@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Yonik,

The SOLR 2 list looks good.  The question is, who is going to do the
work?  I tried to simplify the scope of Ocean as much as possible to
make it possible (and slowly at that over time) for me to eventually
finish what is mentioned on the wiki.  I think SOLR is very cool and
was   major step forward when it came out.  I also think it's got a
lot of things now which makes integration difficult to do properly.  I
did try to integrate and received a lukewarm response and so decided
to just move ahead separately until folks have time to collaborate.
We probably should try to integrate SOLR and Ocean somehow however we
may want to simply reduce the scope a bit and figure what is needed
most, with the main use case being social networks.

I think the problem with integration with SOLR is it was designed with
a different problem set in mind than Ocean, originally the CNET
shopping application.  Facets were important, realtime was not needed
because pricing doesn't change very often.  I designed Ocean for
social networks and actually further into the future realtime
messaging based mobile applications.

SOLR needs to be backward compatible and support it's existing user
base.  How do you plan on doing this for a SOLR 2 if the architecture
is changed dramatically?  SOLR solves a problem set that is very
common making SOLR very useful in many situations.  However I wanted
Ocean to be like GData.  So I wanted the scalability of Google which
SOLR doesn't quite have yet, and the realtime, and then I figured the
other stuff could be added later, stuff people seem to spend a lot of
time on in the SOLR community currently (spellchecker, db imports,
many others).  I did use some of the SOLR terminology in building
Ocean, like snapshots!  But most of it is a digression.  I tried to
use schemas, but they just make the system harder to use.  For
distributed search I prefer serialized objects as this enables things
like SpanQueries and payloads without writing request handlers and
such.  Also there is no need to write new request handlers and deploy
(an expensive operation for systems that are in the 100s of servers)
them as any new classes are simply dynamically loaded by the server
from the client.

A lot is now outlined on the wiki site
http://wiki.apache.org/lucene-java/OceanRealtimeSearch now and there
will be a lot more javadocs in the forthcoming patch.  The latest code
is also available all the time at
http://oceansearch.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/trunk/oceanlucene

I do welcome more discussion and if there are Solr developers who wish
to work on Ocean feel free to drop me a line.  Most of all though I
think it would be useful for social networks interested in realtime
search to get involved as it may be something that is difficult for
one company to have enough resources to implement to a production
level.  I think this is where open source collaboration is
particularly useful.

Cheers,

Jason Rutherglen
jason.rutherglen@gmail.com

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Yonik Seeley <yonik@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Jason Rutherglen
> <jason.rutherglen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am wondering
>> if there are social networks (or anyone else) out there who would be
>> interested in collaborating with Apache on realtime search to get it
>> to the point it can be used in production.
>
> Good timing Jason, I think you'll find some other people right here
> at Apache (solr-dev) that want to collaborate in this area:
>
> http://www.nabble.com/solr2%3A-Onward-and-Upward-td19224805.html
>
> I've looked at your wiki briefly, and all the high level goals/features seem
> to really be synergistic with where we are going with Solr2.
>
> -Yonik
>
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