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From Ruslan Sivak <rsi...@istandfor.com>
Subject Re: Distributed Indexes
Date Mon, 11 Feb 2008 16:35:11 GMT
Basically the index is big is because there is a large number of 
documents, but each individual document is very small.  There is also a 
lot of redundancy, which, I believe is also why the index size is fairly 
small. 

Basically I am using the index to store the user's profile information, 
and then using the similarity search to find similar profiles.  The 
update rate can be fairly high, depending on how many users decide to 
create/update their profiles at the same time. 

The problem arises when many people decide to update their profiles, and 
the windows file replication service doesn't get a chance to synchronize 
the folders between updates.  (It's possible for two people to make 
updates at the same time, on different servers). 

I'm thinking of maybe subclassing a Directory or FSDirectory and 
overriding it to read and write from a database.  Would this work, or is 
there a better solution?

Russ



Grant Ingersoll wrote:
> Solr has a strategy using rsync that makes it relatively easy to copy 
> an index around to other servers.  It uses rsync to just copy the 
> diffs, so you could easily mirror this in your application.
>
> There is no SQL backend for Lucene, but at 4mb you could certainly 
> serialize it as a blob to a SQL db, but I don't see how that would 
> make it faster.
>
> Also, you said it takes a long time to create a 4mb index.  Does this 
> mean you are doing something really, really complex during analysis?  
> I guess what I am missing, and I think others have hinted at, is the 
> big picture isn't quite clear in our minds, because the size of the 
> index seems almost trivially small in Lucene terms, so we would think 
> that a) It would be really fast to create the index (seconds, not 
> minutes) and b) such a small index could be easily held entirely in 
> memory and should easily handle a very, very, high query rate given 
> reasonable hardware, which it sounds like you have.  The other piece 
> that doesn't fit in my mind is it sounds like you have a fairly high 
> update rate since you are getting writes before your 4mb index can be 
> copied on a local network, right?  This implies that you must also 
> have a lot of deletes otherwise your index would be growing 
> significantly.
>
> Thus, more details on what you are doing, how you are creating your 
> index, how your CF app talks to Lucene, etc. would be good.
>
> -Grant
>
>
> On Feb 10, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Ruslan Sivak wrote:
>
>> So nobody's run into anything like this before?  The need to share 
>> the index between many copies of the app possibly running on multiple 
>> servers?
>>
>> Russ
>>
>> Ruslan Sivak wrote:
>>> The app does other things then search the index.  I'm basically 
>>> using ColdFusion for the website and have four instances running on 
>>> two servers for load balancing.  Each app does the searches, and the 
>>> search times are small, the index is small, but it takes a long time 
>>> to fully create the index (several minutes), and I would like the 
>>> index to always be up to date (which is why i replicate the changes).
>>> I basically cache the index for several minutes in a RamDirectory, 
>>> which works quite well for performance.  If I could store the index 
>>> in a SQL Table or something, I can have a single place where the 
>>> index lives and atomic updates.
>>> Is there a SQL Backend for the index, or should I just take the 
>>> RamDirectory, serialize it and store it as a BLOB?
>>>
>>> Russ
>>>
>>> Erick Erickson wrote:
>>>> With an index that small, I wonder why you bother with so many copies?
>>>> What kind of load are you hitting it with and how complex are the 
>>>> queries?
>>>>
>>>> Because unless you have *very* high query rate, I'd look at why my 
>>>> queries
>>>> were
>>>> taking so long before complexifying things this way.
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>> Erick
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 7, 2008 4:52 PM, Ruslan Sivak <rsivak@istandfor.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> My index is only 4mb.  Is there a SQL backend for Lucene?
>>>>>
>>>>> Russ
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael McCandless wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're able to tell Windows FRS which specific files to copy,

>>>>>> then
>>>>>> SnapshotDeletionPolicy (in 2.3) should work for this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It basically protects a consistent snapshot of your index, ensuring
>>>>>> those files will not be deleted, while not blocking further 
>>>>>> updates to
>>>>>> the index.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ruslan Sivak wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm wondering if this is a problem that lucene users have already
>>>>>>> tackled.  I have four copies of the application using a lucene
>>>>>>> index.  They are located on two physical servers with two copies
on
>>>>>>> each server accessing two copies of the lucene index.  I use

>>>>>>> Windows
>>>>>>> FRS (File Replication Service) to replicate the index between

>>>>>>> the two
>>>>>>> servers.
>>>>>>> Things work well most of the time, but sometimes, I believe under
>>>>>>> load, the index doesn't get a chance to propagate before another
>>>>>>> write takes place and it gets corrupted.
>>>>>>> What would you recommend I use to keep the index in sync between

>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> four copies of the app?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Russ
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
> --------------------------
> Grant Ingersoll
> http://lucene.grantingersoll.com
> http://www.lucenebootcamp.com
>
> Lucene Helpful Hints:
> http://wiki.apache.org/lucene-java/BasicsOfPerformance
> http://wiki.apache.org/lucene-java/LuceneFAQ
>
>
>
>
>
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