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From Mike Klaas <mike.kl...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: product based term combination for BooleanQuery?
Date Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:34:20 GMT
On 3-Jul-07, at 4:43 PM, Tim Sturge wrote:

> Here's the explain output I currently get for "George Bush" "George  
> W Bush", "John Kerry" "John Denver" and "John Bush". (there are  
> others in between, but they follow very much the same pattern; an  
> enormous score for one of "John" or "Bush" and a very small score  
> for the other being better than an average score for both.
>
> As you can see I have a lot of fields, some very important (name,  
> alias, title, anchor) and others much less important (text,  
> surround, content, body).

It is definitely not necessary to jack up the field boosts to such  
high levels (and better to do so at query-time, regardless).  Fields  
like title in particularly get huge boosts from the lengthNorm and  
idf.  This is part of the problem.

> I will experiment with DisjunctionMaxQuery, but it honestly seems  
> like ProductQuery is what I want at the outer layer with  
> BooleanQuery inside.

Give it a shot: I'd be interested in usecases for multiplicative  
query scoring.

I think that you are being too hasty in dismissing the implicit  
sloppy phrase query approach.  You can apply this even in the  
presence of user phrase queries (the difference being that those are  
_required_ matches).  All major search engines implement some form or  
another of term-proximity scoring (the huge importance of this factor  
has been obscured by the hype about pagerank, but it should not be  
ignored).

good luck, I'm interested in your results,
-Mike

> Tim
>
> Grant Ingersoll wrote:
>> When you do an explain on these results, what are all the factors  
>> that contribute to the score?
>>
>> Could you increase the coord() factor in a custom Similarity  
>> implementation, to give a bigger boost to documents that have more  
>> matching terms? The point of coord is to give a little bump to  
>> those docs that have more terms from the query in a given  
>> document. Sounds like you want a bigger bump once you have  
>> multiple query terms in a document. Would this work for you?
>>
>> Also, below...
>>
>> On Jul 3, 2007, at 3:20 PM, Tim Sturge wrote:
>>
>>> That's true, but it's not clear that I want phrase matches.  
>>> Consider for example:
>>>
>>> "Lucene Download" as a query. I want something that strongly  
>>> references "Lucene" (in the title) and strongly references  
>>> "Download" but "Download Lucene" or "Lucene Project Download" are  
>>> better than some page that happens to contain the exact phrase.
>>
>> Not sure I follow you here. By strongly references, do you mean  
>> there are multiple occurrences of Download? Why would those  
>> alternatives be better than an exact phrase match?
>>
>>>
>>> Other examples are "camera review" or "Gonzales scandal"; there's  
>>> a whole class of "subject <modifier>" queries that are not really  
>>> phrase based, and my corpus isn't large enough to necessarily  
>>> contain the phrase anyway.
>>>
>>> I agree that many two or three word queries are really best  
>>> matched by phrases, but not all. Is it common to use a phrase  
>>> query with high slop to overcome the unequal weighting problem?
>>>
>>> Also, my interface does support "\"John Bush\"" (ie the user can  
>>> quote the phrase if they like) and I would prefer not to infer  
>>> automatically that they meant to do so.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> Jason Pump wrote:
>>>> You're not using any type of phrase search. Try ->
>>>>
>>>> ( (title:"John Bush"^4.0) OR (body:"John Bush") ) AND  
>>>> ( (title:John^4.0 body:John) AND (title:Bush^4.0 body:Bush) )
>>>>
>>>> or maybe
>>>>
>>>> ( (title:"John Bush"~4^4.0) OR (body:"John Bush"~4) ) AND  
>>>> ( (title:John^4.0 body:John) AND (title:Bush^4.0 body:Bush) )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tim Sturge wrote:
>>>>> I'm following myself up here to ask if anyone has experience or  
>>>>> code with a BooleanQuery that weights the terms it encounters  
>>>>> on a product basis rather than a sum basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> This would effectively compute the geometric mean of the term  
>>>>> score (rather than the arithmetic mean) and would give me more  
>>>>> "middle bias". It also has the great advantage that it  
>>>>> automatically implements AND (as something without the term has  
>>>>> a score of 0.0 which causes the query to go to 0.0 as well.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm curious though why this doesn't already exist. Is it a bad  
>>>>> idea in general (that I will discover once I implement it and  
>>>>> look at the results?) or does it make searching a lot slower?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim Sturge wrote:
>>>>>> I have an index with two different sources of information, one  
>>>>>> small but of high quality (call it "title"), and one large,  
>>>>>> but of lower quality (call it "body"). I give boosts to  
>>>>>> certain documents related to their popularity (this is very  
>>>>>> similar to what one would do indexing the web).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem I have is a query like "John Bush". I translate  
>>>>>> that into " (title:John^4.0 body:John) AND (title:Bush^4.0  
>>>>>> body:Bush) ". But the results I get are:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. George Bush
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> 4. John Kerry
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> 10. John Bush
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason is (looking at explain) that George Bush is scored:
>>>>>> 169 = sum(
>>>>>> 1 = <match in body with tiny norm for "John">
>>>>>> )
>>>>>> 168 = sum(
>>>>>> 160 = <title match for "Bush">
>>>>>> 8 = <body match for "Bush">
>>>>>> )
>>>>>> )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and John Kerry is similar but reversed. Poor old "John Bush"  
>>>>>> only scores:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 72 = sum(
>>>>>> 40 = (<title match for "John">+<body match>)
>>>>>> 32 = (<title match for "Bush">+ <body match>)
>>>>>> )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> because his initial boost was only 1/4 of George's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The question I have is, how can tell the searcher to care  
>>>>>> about "balance"? I really want the score over 2 terms to be  
>>>>>> more like (sqrt(X)+sqrt(Y))^2 or maybe even exp(log(X)+log(Y))  
>>>>>> rather than just X+Y. Is that supported in some obvious way,  
>>>>>> or is there some other way to phrase my query to say "I want  
>>>>>> both terms but they should both be important if possible?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>> -- --
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>> -- -
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Grant Ingersoll
>> http://www.grantingersoll.com/
>> http://lucene.grantingersoll.com
>> http://www.paperoftheweek.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
>>
>
> [
>   {
>     "explain" : "169.71423 = (MATCH) sum of:
>   0.033628028 = (MATCH) product of:
>     0.23539619 = (MATCH) sum of:
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> ",
>     "name" : "George W. Bush",
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>     "name" : "George H. W. Bush",
>   },
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>           0.025834301 = queryNorm
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>     "name" : "John Kerry",
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>     "name" : "John Denver",
>   },
>   {
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> ",
>     "name" : "John Bush",
>   }
> ]
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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