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From "Lukas Vlcek" <lukas.vl...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Fwd: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Date Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:43:19 GMT
Thank you all for your time and writing!
This will really help me.
Lukas

On 11/21/06, adasal <adam.saltiel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for link and your write up.
>
> On 19/11/06, Shay Banon <kimchy@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Since I do not want to invade Lucene user list regarding a discussion
> > about
> > Compass and Hiberante Search, but I still think that it is something
> that
> > needs to get answered, here is a link to my blog post discussing this:
> > http://jroller.com/page/kimchy?entry=hibernate_search_lucene .
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Shay
> >
> >
> > Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> > >
> > > I forgot a couple of things.
> > > I do not think that all your object properties belongs to the Index,
> and
> > > some of them will be put in the index with information degradation (ie
> > > store year/month rather than the whole date). So I do not believe
> there
> > > is a bidirectional relationship between your domain model and your
> index
> > > documents (for size, efficiency and accuracy purpose).
> > > For that matter, Compass cannot really truly index your database
> backed
> > > domain model and give back the object to you. Hibernate Search can
> > > because it delegate the object hydration to Hibernate Core.
> > >
> > > Of course that's my opinions, and some people can disagree ;-)
> > >
> > > Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >> I am not really familiar with Compass I haven't really looked at the
> > >> code, Hibernate Lucene (now renamed Hibernate Search) started from a
> > >> user demand. I had some in depth discussions though, with some users
> > >> that evaluated both Compass and Hibernate Search that helped me drive
> > >> its design.
> > >>
> > >> Here are the arguments in favor of Hibernate Search:
> > >> 1. not Yet Another API to deal with your domain model
> > >> If you already use an ORM (JPA or Hibernate), you are familiar with
> > >> those APIs. Using compass implies that you have to use a different
> set
> > >> of API to play with the object lifecycle (CRUD).
> > >> Hibernate Search is integrated with the org.hibernate.Queryinterface,
> > >> and all the CUD operations on the index are triggered from the
> > Hibernate
> > >> CUD operations.
> > >>
> > >> 2. Metadata
> > >> Metadata are minimal and fit particularly well through annotations,
> so
> > >> you don't have yet another XML representation of ther same domain
> model
> >
> > >> (Compass might now have annotations support, you'll have to check)
> > >>
> > >> 3. it's all about managed objects (ie managed by the Session or the
> > >> EntityManager)
> > >> Hibernate Search gives you back objects managed by the Session, so
> any
> > >> change made to them will (by default) be synchronized with the
> > database,
> > >> this is the normal behavior of an ORM, but is not what you have from
> a
> > >> Compass search.
> > >> This approach fits well with the JBoss Seam approach of having all
> the
> > >> application around the domain model and EJB 3.0
> > >>
> > >> 4. Not too much abstraction
> > >>  From what I've heard, Compass borrow a lot of its design /
> classnames
> > >> from Hibernate/Spring/Lucene. Compass tries to abstract those 3
> > >> techlnologies (at least Hibernate and Lucene), by providing its own
> > >> infrastructure.
> > >> What am trying to do with Hibernate Search is to keep the abstraction
> > as
> > >> light as possible. For advanced Lucene query you'll have to use pure
> > >> Lucene APIs, which is possible / natural with Hibernate Search
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I invite you to check these links (which I expect to release soon)
> > >>
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> > >> and for the future (but flexible)
> > >>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00393.html
> >
> > >>
> > >> HTH
> > >>
> > >> Emmanuel
> > >>
> > >> Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Emanuael,
> > >> > I would be glad to hear your answer here (on user list).
> > >> > Regards,
> > >> > Lukas
> > >> >
> > >> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > >> > From: Emmanuel Bernard <emmanuel@hibernate.org >
> > >> > Date: Nov 13, 2006 11:07 PM
> > >> > Subject: Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
> > >> > To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org, lukas.vlcek@gmail.com
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi Lukas,
> > >> > I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene dev
> is
> > >> > the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
> > >> > let's move this discussion here
> > >> > http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene User
> > >> list
> > >> > if you want to).
> > >> >
> > >> > Emmanuel
> > >> >
> > >> > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Hi Emmanuel,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene
and
> > >> > hibernate
> > >> > > in my next project and search will play very important role
> > >> > > (*stake-holder*
> > >> > > functionality). I have heard of
> > >> > > comapss< http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which
> > introduces
> > >> > > searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
> > >> > > I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Do you think you could give me some high level comments about
> your
> > >> > > motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate
> > code,
> > >> > > couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental
> > >> > difference
> > >> > > between your approach and comapss?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Many thanks,
> > >> > > Lukas
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard < emmanuel@hibernate.org>
wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Hi guys,
> > >> > > > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> > >> > > > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene
> > integration
> > >> > > module.
> > >> > > > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration
of a
> > >> search
> > >> > > > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what,
I
> use
> >
> > >> > Lucene
> > >> > > > ;-)
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name
might
> > >> > infringe
> > >> > > > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> > >> > > > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene
is
> a
> > >> > > > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt
> BTW)
> >
> > >> > > > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair
use
> > >> of the
> > >> > > > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to
be
> silent
> > >> on
> > >> > > > this subject).
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider
a fair
> > >> use of
> > >> > > > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the
initial
> > >> choice
> > >> > > > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Emmanuel
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons
if
> this
> > >> > is not
> > >> > > > the case already (PMC or whatever)
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> > >>
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://www.nabble.com/Fwd%3A-Hibernate-Lucene-trademark-issues-tf2651281.html#a7433312
> > Sent from the Lucene - Java Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-user-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: java-user-help@lucene.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>

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