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From Emmanuel Bernard <emman...@hibernate.org>
Subject Re: Fwd: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
Date Mon, 20 Nov 2006 02:10:26 GMT
Cool thanks.

Shay Banon wrote:
>
> Since I do not want to invade Lucene user list regarding a discussion 
> about
> Compass and Hiberante Search, but I still think that it is something that
> needs to get answered, here is a link to my blog post discussing this:
> http://jroller.com/page/kimchy?entry=hibernate_search_lucene .
>
> Cheers,
> Shay
>
>
> Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> >
> > I forgot a couple of things.
> > I do not think that all your object properties belongs to the Index, and
> > some of them will be put in the index with information degradation (ie
> > store year/month rather than the whole date). So I do not believe there
> > is a bidirectional relationship between your domain model and your index
> > documents (for size, efficiency and accuracy purpose).
> > For that matter, Compass cannot really truly index your database backed
> > domain model and give back the object to you. Hibernate Search can
> > because it delegate the object hydration to Hibernate Core.
> >
> > Of course that's my opinions, and some people can disagree ;-)
> >
> > Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> I am not really familiar with Compass I haven't really looked at the
> >> code, Hibernate Lucene (now renamed Hibernate Search) started from a
> >> user demand. I had some in depth discussions though, with some users
> >> that evaluated both Compass and Hibernate Search that helped me drive
> >> its design.
> >>
> >> Here are the arguments in favor of Hibernate Search:
> >> 1. not Yet Another API to deal with your domain model
> >> If you already use an ORM (JPA or Hibernate), you are familiar with
> >> those APIs. Using compass implies that you have to use a different set
> >> of API to play with the object lifecycle (CRUD).
> >> Hibernate Search is integrated with the org.hibernate.Query interface,
> >> and all the CUD operations on the index are triggered from the 
> Hibernate
> >> CUD operations.
> >>
> >> 2. Metadata
> >> Metadata are minimal and fit particularly well through annotations, so
> >> you don't have yet another XML representation of ther same domain model
> >> (Compass might now have annotations support, you'll have to check)
> >>
> >> 3. it's all about managed objects (ie managed by the Session or the
> >> EntityManager)
> >> Hibernate Search gives you back objects managed by the Session, so any
> >> change made to them will (by default) be synchronized with the 
> database,
> >> this is the normal behavior of an ORM, but is not what you have from a
> >> Compass search.
> >> This approach fits well with the JBoss Seam approach of having all the
> >> application around the domain model and EJB 3.0
> >>
> >> 4. Not too much abstraction
> >>  From what I've heard, Compass borrow a lot of its design / classnames
> >> from Hibernate/Spring/Lucene. Compass tries to abstract those 3
> >> techlnologies (at least Hibernate and Lucene), by providing its own
> >> infrastructure.
> >> What am trying to do with Hibernate Search is to keep the 
> abstraction as
> >> light as possible. For advanced Lucene query you'll have to use pure
> >> Lucene APIs, which is possible / natural with Hibernate Search
> >>
> >>
> >> I invite you to check these links (which I expect to release soon)
> >> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> >> and for the future (but flexible)
> >> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00393.html
> >>
> >> HTH
> >>
> >> Emmanuel
> >>
> >> Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Emanuael,
> >> > I would be glad to hear your answer here (on user list).
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Lukas
> >> >
> >> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> > From: Emmanuel Bernard <emmanuel@hibernate.org>
> >> > Date: Nov 13, 2006 11:07 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: Hibernate Lucene trademark issues
> >> > To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org, lukas.vlcek@gmail.com
> >> >
> >> > Hi Lukas,
> >> > I'd be happy to answer your question, but I don't think Lucene dev is
> >> > the appropriate area for that kind of discussion.
> >> > let's move this discussion here
> >> > http://forum.hibernate.org/viewforum.php?f=9 (or in the Lucene User
> >> list
> >> > if you want to).
> >> >
> >> > Emmanuel
> >> >
> >> > Lukas Vlcek wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Emmanuel,
> >> > >
> >> > > I am interested in you solution. I have a plan to use lucene and
> >> > hibernate
> >> > > in my next project and search will play very important role
> >> > > (*stake-holder*
> >> > > functionality). I have heard of
> >> > > comapss<http://www.opensymphony.com/compass/>project which 
> introduces
> >> > > searching (lucene) layer on top of hibernate also.
> >> > > I haven't had a change to study it in detail yet.
> >> > >
> >> > > Do you think you could give me some high level comments about your
> >> > > motivation for implementing lucene search directly in hibernate 
> code,
> >> > > couldn't you just use compass project? Is there any fundamental
> >> > difference
> >> > > between your approach and comapss?
> >> > >
> >> > > Many thanks,
> >> > > Lukas
> >> > >
> >> > > On 11/6/06, Emmanuel Bernard <emmanuel@hibernate.org> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi guys,
> >> > > > I'm Emmanuel Bernard from JBoss.
> >> > > > I'm the current lead developer of the Hibernate Lucene 
> integration
> >> > > module.
> >> > > > The goal of this project is to facilitate the integration of
a
> >> search
> >> > > > capability to Hibernate based applications. And guess what, I
use
> >> > Lucene
> >> > > > ;-)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> 
> http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/annotations/reference/en/html/lucene.html
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hibernate-dev%40lists.jboss.org/msg00392.html
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I realized this week end that the 'Hibernate Lucene' name might
> >> > infringe
> >> > > > the Apache Lucene trademark policy.
> >> > > > http://www.cafepress.com/lucene/ seems to state that Lucene is
a
> >> > > > trademark of the Apache Software Foundation (nice golf shirt
BTW)
> >> > > > But I wasn't able to find any document explaining the fair use
> >> of the
> >> > > > Lucene brand (the license as well as the notice seem to be silent
> >> on
> >> > > > this subject).
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Even if Lucene in not trademarked, what do you consider a fair
> >> use of
> >> > > > your brand? I'm happy to rename my project, I guess the initial
> >> choice
> >> > > > was more a tribute to your project than anything else.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Emmanuel
> >> > > >
> >> > > > PS: please forward this email to the appropriate persons if this
> >> > is not
> >> > > > the case already (PMC or whatever)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: java-dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: java-dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Fwd%3A-Hibernate-Lucene-trademark-issues-tf2651281.html#a7433312
> Sent from the Lucene - Java Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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