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From Erik Hatcher <>
Subject Lucene and MVC (was Re: Bad file descriptor (IOException) using SearchBean contribution)
Date Thu, 20 May 2004 02:38:21 GMT
On May 19, 2004, at 8:04 AM, Timothy Stone wrote:
>> Could you elaborate on what you mean by MVC here?  A value list 
>> handler piece has been developed and links posted to it on this list 
>> - if this is the type of thing you're referring to.
> Again, maybe I was naively associating the "SearchBean" with something 
> that it was not suppose to be doing. To elaborate, I would like to 
> take the demo, which has been working with some success for two years 
> on my site, and follow the suggestions of Andrew C. Oliver and go 
> "Model 2 on the demo."

I've never seen a user story (or use case) that said "this feature must 
use MVC" :)  What is the purpose of going MVC here?  Is it just for 
architectural purity?

> So the SearchBean's purpose, as I understood it, was to provide a 
> Model 2 component for use in JSPs.

Consider a query that generates a million hits.  How should the JSP 
iterate over them?  In a pure MVC world, the JSP would be pushed the 
hits and allowed to display them however it likes.  With Lucene Hits, 
you get this capability already.  I'm just not convinced a wrapper is 
needed, especially now that sorting is built-in.

Again, I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

>> A value list handler piece has been developed and links posted to it
>> on this list - if this is the type of thing you're referring to.
> I tried looking for references to such, but no luck.

Also, for JSP use, there is the taglib contribution in the sandbox that 
might be of interest to you.  I've not gotten it to work, yet, and it's 
not quite my cup of tea (being an anti-JSP kinda guy that is).

> I must admit that I get the feeling that "newbies" to Lucene seem to 
> get less attention on the list. I'm one that tries real hard to 
> research my question first in the archives ( 
> then on the web. Even I get frustrated on some lists where the most 
> obvious question is being asked and the asker misses hints and 
> outright help.

When I was first learning Ant, I lurked on the ant-user list and when a 
question came up that I knew I'd answer it.  When one came up that I 
didn't know, I'd research it by experimenting and cross-referencing in 
the source code to try to figure it out.  We really get out of this 
community what we put into it, in my opinion.  Newbies need to be savvy 
and do some homework and not expect everything to be spelled out 
beautifully - none of us have time to flesh out full-fledged example 
applications to answer every question.  Sometimes a question comes 
along that I could reply to, but I let it go because I'm crushed for 
time as it is.  Sometimes I'll answer - especially if the question 
piques my curiosity or has some aspect of a challenge for me to learn 
something new.

I personally try to answer professionally and thoroughly, but sometimes 
I might answer off-the-cuff or quickly and it comes out a bit tersely 
or perhaps intimidating.  My contributions as a whole, though, are 
hopefully taken positively by the community.

>  The Lucene User list can be intimidating even for the advanced novice 
> who may be on the right track but not phrasing or wording or 
> describing the problem or task in front of him/her.

You are not the only one that gets blown away by things on this list.  
There are many times I've been baffled and completely mind-blown by 
things here - what underlies Lucene and what folks can build around it 
is simply astonishing.  This is no typical open source project we're 
dealing with here.  Thankfully the API is so straightforward to use, 
though, that Lucene usage is clear - its the bigger picture that is 
daunting (to me).

I'm personally reading Managing Gigabytes at the moment, and my head is 
spinning.  But it is helping me get a clearer picture of the underlying 
concepts that Lucene is built upon.

> a new desire to tackle Struts, and well, havoc ensues.

OffTopic: havoc and Struts go well together ;)  Pick up Tapestry 


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