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From Phil Haack <phi...@microsoft.com>
Subject RE: Lucene.NET Community Status
Date Tue, 02 Nov 2010 18:55:42 GMT
Not that my opinion holds much weight as I've never contributed much to Lucene.NET in the past
(other than promotion), but I think Ben is right. Although I do think moving to a more .NET
"friendly" environment would garner more .NET developer attention, I'm not sure that would
actually matter. Given what I've learned from this discussion, the expertise to carry on this
project as-is just doesn't exist in the .NET community at the moment.

As an aside to the Apache Foundation, I think it'd be a shame not to take this as a moment
to reflect on what would make the Apache Foundation more inviting to .NET developers. Obviously
the Java community has a richer larger OSS heritage, but there's a very active and growing
OSS community in the .NET space and we have a lot to learn from the Apache organization. But
I think some learning can go both ways.

Now back to the point at hand. It seems to me that there are two key things that need to happen
soon:

1. Clean up the documentation and project web page.
2. Find the best Java to C# automated tool (whether it's OSS or not).

I need to read through the Apache Foundation docs to understand how you even go about editing
the project page. I'd like to help out there if I can. As for #2, once the tool has been identified,
if it requires funding, I think we could look at tackling that together. Would the foundation
fund such a thing? If not, we can go looking around for funding from all the many companies
that benefit from Lucene.NET.

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Martz [mailto:benmartz@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:44 AM
To: lucene-net-user@lucene.apache.org
Cc: lucene-net-dev@lucene.apache.org; Lucene mailing list
Subject: Re: Lucene.NET Community Status

If nothing else they (ASF) provide a swift kick in our collective behinds when it's needed.
And it's needed rather badly right now.

The last release of Lucene.Net was 2.9.2 in May. Lucene Java 2.9.2 and 3.0.1 were released
in February and 2.9.3 and 3.0.2 were released in June. It's now November and as a community
we have no clue what our current project status is.

With all due respect to the couple of very dedicated people who actively contribute, Lucene.Net
is a mess from a project management standpoint. The port from Lucene Java is a mysterious
black-box process which takes place "eventually" because one person generously spends a huge
amount of time on it in their spare time, outside of their real job that actually pays the
bills.

The gating factor for this project is the initial port by one poor soul and then fixes to
various subtle issues caused by the automated conversion.

On the subject of forking outside of ASF, one big issue is that Lucene.Net would not exist
without the fundamental work done by the gurus involved in the Lucene Java project. I can
port another developer's code all day but I sure don't have the domain knowledge (or the interest)
to get into the guts of Lucene and actually make meaningful improvements there.

I think this recent discussion of automated porting tools is a great start towards breathing
some life back into this project. I'm hoping to play with a couple of the tools mentioned
when time permits so I can contribute to that discussion. Hopefully if enough people are interested
then we can build on that and segment out portions of the work so that even with some overlap
we are no longer gated by the availability of a single developer.

The short term issue though is whether or not enough people are interested in continuing this
project under the umbrella of ASF and if so then, as I understand it, there are certain basic
procedures that need to be followed so that ASF doesn't drop this technically inactive project.

Cheers,
Ben

Josh Handel wrote:
> I should clarify here.. because this could sound hostal to the Apache Foundation..
>
> I'm not for or against saying as an Apache Project.. But the Goals of being an Open Source
port of Lucene (line for line or otherwise) can be done inside or outside the Apache Foundation....
 Ergo, rather than assume that going back to Incubation with the hope of becoming a TLP inside
the Apache Foundation is what is best for this project, I think we should evaluate what Apache
offers..
>
> If they provide compelling resources and support that is worth more than the Political
headache and overhead, then I say we stay. However, if we are all in a tizzy to not lose our
status and all they provide is source control, a mail list, and the name "Lucene" then I think
we should be discussing if that is worth the overhead they impose.
>
> Josh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Handel [mailto:Josh.Handel@catapultsystems.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 1:02 PM
> To: lucene-net-user@lucene.apache.org
> Cc: lucene-net-dev@lucene.apache.org; Lucene mailing list
> Subject: RE: Lucene.NET Community Status
>
> One thing that has yet to be answered on this list is this :
>
> What does Apache Foundation provide, that the project does not received on its own OTHER
than the name "Lucene"..     I hear a lot of what Apache requests of us, beyond a name what
the heck do they provide?
>
> Josh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grant Ingersoll [mailto:gsingers@apache.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 12:59 PM
> To: lucene-net-user@lucene.apache.org
> Cc: lucene-net-dev@lucene.apache.org; Lucene mailing list
> Subject: Re: Lucene.NET Community Status
>
>
> On Nov 2, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Granroth, Neal V. wrote:
>
>> We've already been through this process once before.  Why repeat?
>
> Because clearly it didn't take the first time and this time the goal is to demonstrate
the community can stand on its own two feet as an Apache Top Level Project (TLP).  Last time
through, the goal was to be a part of the Lucene PMC.
>
> Given the declared interest level here, if it is indeed real, it shouldn't be a problem
to go back to the incubator with  some extra helping hands, do some real releases, learn how
Apache works and then graduate to be a TLP.
>
> -Grant
>

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