lucene-general mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Grant Ingersoll <>
Subject Re: [PMC] [DISCUSS] Lucy
Date Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:52:12 GMT

On Jun 14, 2010, at 8:16 PM, Chris Hostetter wrote:

> : Finally, given that Lucy undoubtedly is a separate community (if it ever 
> : exists) with separate goals from Lucene and that it is considered ASF 
> : best practice for PMC's to not be "umbrella" projects, I think we should 
> : consider either Lucy going into the Incubator with the goal of growing 
> : it's own community and standing on it's own as a TLP in its own right 
> : (just as we recommended for CLucene recently) or going to Google Code or 
> (DISCLAIMER: I personally find the ASF's policy of discouraging/disbanding 
> umbrella projects silly and w/o merrit)

I used to feel that way, but am more inclined that it makes sense now.  We've seen how sometimes
it is difficult to get votes for releases of some of the subs that don't have a lot of PMC
representation.  We've also seen numerous cases where PMC members who are not committers on
a sub are voting for things on that sub that they don't really have merit on and yet it is
binding for that sub.   I also think it just gives each project more control over its goals,
etc.  Plus, it it gives some higher visibility to the project.

> I think it's clear that Lucy's long term future rests in becoming a TLP. 
> The ASF's policy about umbrella projects leave very little room to imagine 
> a way of justifying Lucy as a sub-project since it does not, and is not 
> ever likely, to have any serious overlap in community or code (regardless 
> of how much the cross pollination of *ideas* has proved valuable and will 
> likely continue to prove valuable in the future).  
> The question that remains is how to get from A to B.
> I'm having a hard time wrapping my head arround the idea of Lucy moving 
> from the Lucene TLP to the Incubator TLP.  It probably would have made 
> sense for Lucy start in the Incubator years ago, but I'm not really sure 
> what value that would add now given the status quo.  Would the Incubator 
> TLP be in a better position to help build the Lucy community then the 
> Lucene TLP?  Would it have more visibility then it does now?  Would the 
> Incubator PMC even *accept* Lucy since there are no IP issues, and the 
> existing committers/community are allready ASF commiters/community?

I think the big issue is lack of community and the Incubator is where that is supposed to

> My suggestion would be that Lucy stay in the Lucene TLP, and that the Lucy 
> development community focus on more *community* driven goals and less code 
> driven goals until the community reaches a size that is self sustainable 
> so that it can graduate to a TLP (ie: add committers, build a user base, 
> have a release -- even if it's a 0.1 release with APIs that are subject to 
> change, etc....).  This is probably the same roadmap that Lucy would be 
> expected to take if it moved to the Incubator right now, but with less 
> infra overhead and domain changes -- things that seem like they would do 
> more harm then good as far as helping people "find" Lucy.

OK.  So, in my mind, what this would take is:
1. Doing a release.
2. Showing some user list traction (i.e. real users)
3. Identifying and cultivating other contributors (via patches, discussions, JIRA issues,
helping others, etc.) who can then become committers.

(I agree w/ Hoss, it's less about code)

My main suggestion of moving to the incubator would allow for committers to be added right
away w/o the usual demonstration of merit.

I also, unfortunately, have a hard time believing this PMC is in a position to certify a release,
but I suppose if we had some volunteers who are willing to go through the code/artifacts/etc.
in depth then it could be done.  This is primarily where the Incubator suggestion comes from.

> If i wasn't so behind on my email, i would have suggested/recommended that 
> we raise this quetsion in our Board report this month, and specificly ask 
> the Board for their guidance on the "move to Incubator" idea (since 
> they're the ones pushing against umbrella projects) ... but i guess it's 
> too late now.  Perhaps an addendum?

I don't think it has to be on the agenda.  I think we should decide here which route to go
then just ask the Incubator or Board.  I'd rather not make Lucy jump through Infra hoops to
become an Incubator project, but I also don't think we should just add committers here, which,
IMO, is one thing that really is needed.
View raw message