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From Grant Ingersoll <>
Subject Re: [PMC] [DISCUSS] Lucy
Date Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:23:09 GMT
Just to be clear, I wasn't saying Lucy has to leave the ASF.  It can certainly go into Incubator.
 The thing it needs to do, in my mind, is prove their a community here more than just Marvin
(and despite the discussion on IRC, the mail archives paint a different story:
 ASF projects must be able to survive the withdrawal of a contributor and I don't think Lucy
would.  The Incubator is where this stuff gets sorted out at the ASF.  I was only suggesting
the other options as something Lucy might find easier to deal with since it won't have ASF
restrictions, but if the project wants to stay in the ASF than by all means to the Incubator.
 That suggestion is not in anyway, shape or form, meant to detract from all the good work
Marvin has done or the potential of Lucy and it certainly doesn't mean we don't still want
to have discussions around how to improve things.  It really is an opportunity for Lucy to
stand on it's own by showing itself as a real community with real users and real contributors.

On Jun 12, 2010, at 7:10 AM, Grant Ingersoll wrote:

> It's been a while since we've taken a look at Lucy from a PMC standpoint, but I think
it is worth us reviewing once again.  And, while this isn't easy to do because I very much
value Marvin as a member of the Lucene community, I think we need have a frank discussion
about whether Lucy belongs as a Lucene subproject, especially in light of recent Board concerns
about Lucene's umbrella status.
> Since the last email discussing Lucy, Marvin has been working on it, AFAICT, which is
a good thing.  I still, however, don't think it meets the community standards of the ASF (see for instance).    For instance,
there does not appear to be anyone else who has contributed to it at any level beyond the
occasional email here and there.  The last email on the dev list from someone other than Marvin
was someone announcing KinoSearch on May 1st.  Before that, it was on April 6.  The last email
on the user list was from Marvin in November of 2009.  And, while Marvin participates regularly
on dev@l.a.o and we have had many cross pollination talks, it does not, unfortunately, make
for a community around Lucy.   There also has yet to be a single release in its time here.
 Even if there were an attempt at a release, how many PMC members even follow Lucy enough
that you feel comfortable voting for a release?  
> If this were a project coming from the Incubator to us via a "graduation vote", I would
vote to not let it graduate.
> Finally, given that Lucy undoubtedly is a separate community (if it ever exists) with
separate goals from Lucene and that it is considered ASF best practice for PMC's to not be
"umbrella" projects, I think we should consider either Lucy going into the Incubator with
the goal of growing it's own community and standing on it's own as a TLP in its own right
(just as we recommended for CLucene recently) or going to Google Code or some other such hosting
service where it will be free to make decisions on its future without the hinderance of a
PMC that isn't aligned with its needs and objectives, as I believe is the current case with
the Lucene PMC.  
> -Grant

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