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From Simon Willnauer <simon.willna...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: Factor out a standalone, shared analysis package for Nutch/Solr/Lucene?
Date Mon, 01 Mar 2010 17:41:43 GMT
IMO the only downside is that we risk a longer release cycle if we
merge. I requires a certain level of discipline but has this been the
case since ever?! Anything else seems to be a win to both communities
and I personally would love to see the communities coming closer
again. I was working on many analyzers removing code duplication
maintaining BW compat almost every time we committed a change caused a
new issue on solr which could have been fixed in one go.
Concerns about Solr could slow us down during maintaining BW compat
appear to be invalid to me as the Solr API as a direct customer of the
lucene API would enforce our policy which is a good thing.

I also agree with Robert that moving Solr into a TLP would make things
even worse.


On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Robert Muir <rcmuir@gmail.com> wrote:
> but Yonik's proposal (or at least some of the ideas from it?) is attractive
> as it seems to solve the real problem that created the duplication in the
> first place, which is not limited to analyzers.
>
> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 12:01 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) <
> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>> Hi Grant,
>>
>> > On Mar 1, 2010, at 8:20 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Robert,
>> >>
>> >> I think my proposal (Solr->TLP) is sort of orthogonal to the whole
>> analyzers
>> >> issue - I was in favor, at the very least, of having a separate
>> >> module/project/whatever that both Solr/Lucene (and whatever project) can
>> >> depend on for the shared analyzer code...
>> >
>> > Not really.  They are intimately linked.
>>
>> Ummm, how so? Making project A called "Apache Super Analyzers" and then
>> making Lucene(-java) and Solr depend on Apache Super Analyzers is separate
>> of whether or not Lucene(-java) and Solr are TLPs or not...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Chris
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 3/1/10 9:12 AM, "Robert Muir" <rcmuir@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> this will make the analyzers duplication problem even worse
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) <
>> >> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi Mark,
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks for your message. I respect your viewpoint, but I respectfully
>> >>> disagree. It just seems (to me at least based on the discussion) like
a
>> TLP
>> >>> for Solr is the way to go.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> Chris
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 3/1/10 8:54 AM, "Mark Miller" <markrmiller@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On 03/01/2010 10:40 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) wrote:
>> >>>> Hi Mark,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> That would really be no real world change from how things work
today.
>> >>> The fact
>> >>>>> is, today, Solr already operates essentially as an independent
>> project.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> Well if that's the case, then it would lead me to think that it's
more
>> of
>> >>> a
>> >>>> TLP more than anything else per best practices.
>> >>>>
>> >>> That depends. It could be argued it should be a top level project or
>> >>> that it should be closer to the Lucene project. Some people are arguing
>> >>> for both approaches right now. There are two directions we could move
>> in.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> The only real difference is that it shares the same PMC with
Lucene
>> now
>> >>> and
>> >>>>> wouldn't with this change. This would address none of the issues
that
>> >>>>> triggered
>> >>>>> the idea for a possible merge.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> I don't agree -- you're looking to bring together two communities
that
>> >>> are
>> >>>> "fairly separate" as you put it. The separation likely didn't spring
>> up
>> >>> over
>> >>>> night and has been this way for a while (as least to my knowledge).
>> This
>> >>> is
>> >>>> exactly the type of situation that typically leads to TLP creation
>> from
>> >>> what
>> >>>> I've seen.
>> >>>>
>> >>> It also causes negatives between Solr/Lucene that some are looking to
>> >>> address. Hence the birth of this proposal. Going TLP with Solr will
>> only
>> >>> aggravate those negatives, not help them.
>> >>>
>> >>> While the communities operate fairly separately at the moment, the
>> >>> people in the communities are not so separate. The committer list has
>> >>> huge overlap. Many committers on one project but not the other do a
lot
>> >>> of work on both projects.
>> >>>
>> >>> There is already a strong link with the personal - merging the
>> >>> management of the projects addresses many of the concerns that have
>> >>> prompted this discussion. TLP'ing Solr only makes those concerns
>> >>> multiply. They would diverge further, and incompatible overlap between
>> >>> them would increase.
>> >>>
>> >>>> Cheers,
>> >>>> Chris
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 03/01/2010 10:04 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hey Grant,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I'd like to explore this<   does this imply that the
Lucene
>> >>> sub-projects will
>> >>>>>> go away and Lucene will turn into Lucene-java and maintain
its
>> Apache
>> >>> TLP,
>> >>>>>> and then you'd have say, solr.apache.org, tika.apache.org,
>> >>> mahout.apache.org
>> >>>>>> (already started), etc. etc.? If so, that may be the best
of all
>> >>> worlds,
>> >>>>>> allowing project independence, but also not following the
Apache
>> >>>>>> "antipattern" as Doug put it...
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Cheers,
>> >>>>>> Chris
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 3/1/10 7:28 AM, "Grant Ingersoll"<gsingers@apache.org>
  wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Also, as Doug alluded to, the Board is likely to ask
us to consider
>> >>> less
>> >>>>>>> subprojects in the future, so we may be consolidating
and spinning
>> off
>> >>>>>>> anyway.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> >>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> >>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> >>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> >>>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> >>>>>> Phone: +1 (818) 354-8810
>> >>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> >>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089
USA
>> >>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> - Mark
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://www.lucidimagination.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> >>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> >>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> >>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> >>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> >>>> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/<http://sunset.usc.edu/%7Emattmann/>
>> <http://sunset.usc.edu/%7Emattmann/>
>> >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> >>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> - Mark
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.lucidimagination.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> >>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> >>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> >>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> >>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> >>> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/<http://sunset.usc.edu/%7Emattmann/>
>> <http://sunset.usc.edu/%7Emattmann/>
>> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> >>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Robert Muir
>> >> rcmuir@gmail.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> >> Senior Computer Scientist
>> >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> >> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> >> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> >> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/<http://sunset.usc.edu/%7Emattmann/>
>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/<http://sunset.usc.edu/%7Emattmann/>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Robert Muir
> rcmuir@gmail.com
>

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