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Subject: Re: [spatial] Cartesian "Tiers" nomenclature
From: Grant Ingersoll <gsingers@apache.org>
In-Reply-To: <1e33aedb0912282349y48628cb8q7ddf9e24d4ad1d77@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 08:50:28 -0500
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References: <1e33aedb0912282125k2f6dc673u98584f8ea24854c3@mail.gmail.com>
 <C75EE02D.8A09%Chris.A.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
 <1e33aedb0912282349y48628cb8q7ddf9e24d4ad1d77@mail.gmail.com>
To: general@lucene.apache.org


On Dec 29, 2009, at 2:49 AM, patrick o'leary wrote:
> Doc's about it exist on gissearch.com
> dzone are doing articles on it
> =
http://java.dzone.com/articles/spatial-search-hibernate?utm_source=3Dfeedb=
urner&utm_medium=3Dfeed&utm_campaign=3DFeed%3A+javalobby%2Ffrontpage+%28Ja=
valobby+%2F+Java+Zone%29
>=20
> Locallucene in google has over 8,000 results
> http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dlocallucene
>=20
> Localsolr has over 4,000 results
> http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dlocalsolr
>=20

Like I said earlier, they are all self referential.  Find me a link that =
mentions Cartesian Tier that isn't also talking about Local Lucene/Solr. =
 That, of course, is valuable in that some people have already been =
trained on it.   However, now that spatial is a part of Lucene/Solr, I =
think it's valuable to make sure we are using the terminology that most =
people are familiar with, not just those who have used LocalLucene/Solr.

> I've seen and help with installations all over the place, heck even =
codehaus
> use it, as do folks on github with geonames db.
> I see named it mathematically & scientifically correct, and  gaining =
enough
> traction and popularity to start becoming part of the standard, not =
just
> duplicating one.

But aren't they calling it that b/c LocalLucene called it that?  Not =
saying that makes it wrong, I just want to call it what the majority of =
other people call it so that we can take advantage of and attract more =
people to contribute and maintain it.  Perhaps there is no standard, =
which makes it moot, but the fact that I've seen a number of people call =
it tiles or grids at much larger sites than Lucene makes me think those =
are better names, not too mention nearly everyone else on this thread. =20=


>=20
> I can't honestly see how a refactoring is bringing anything positive =
to
> this, when there isn't a good standard out there yet.
>=20

It's not about a standard, b/c as you say it doesn't exist.  It's about =
what most people are going to be familiar with.

>=20
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) <
> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>=20
>> Hi Patrick,
>>=20
>> Interesting. It seems like there is a precedent already in the Local =
Lucene
>> and Local SOLR packages that define "CartesianTier" as lingua franca.
>>=20
>> Like I said in an earlier email it depends on who you talk to =
regarding the
>> preference of what to call these Tiles/Grids/Tiers, etc., and that =
seems to
>> be further evidenced by your research.
>>=20
>> I for one don=B9t really have a preference but precedent matters to =
me and if
>> Tiers have been used to date then there should be strong =
consideration to
>> use that nomenclature and +1 from me.
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>=20
>> On 12/28/09 9:25 PM, "patrick o'leary" <pjaol@pjaol.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> So trying no to drag this out, the most frequent generic term used =
in GIS
>>> software is SRID
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRID
>>>=20
>>> Again this provides just a basic nomenclature for the high level =
element,
>>> somewhat the blackbird of objects rather than the defining the =
magpie
>> (sorry
>>> for the CS 101 reference)
>>>=20
>>> But it should show that every implementation is unique in some =
format.
>>> Perhaps as unique as CartesianTier's ( sorry Ted ! )
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, patrick o'leary <pjaol@pjaol.com>
>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Hmm, depends, tiles indicate to me a direct correlation between the =
id
>> and
>>>> a map tile, which will depend upon using the right projection
>>>> with the cartesian plotter
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Grant Ingersoll =
<gsingers@apache.org
>>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Dec 28, 2009, at 4:19 PM, patrick o'leary wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hmm, but when you say grid, to me that's just a bunch of =
regularly
>>>>> spaced
>>>>>> lines..
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Yeah, I hear you.  I chose spatial tiles for the Solr patch, but
>> spatial
>>>>> grid would work too.  Or map tiles/map grids.  That anchors it =
into the
>>>>> spatial world, since we're calling Lucene's spatial =
contrib/spatial and
>>>>> Solr's Solr Spatial.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Grant Ingersoll =
<gsingers@apache.org
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:51 PM, patrick o'leary wrote:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> So Grant here's the deal behind the name.
>>>>>>>> Cartesian because it's a simple x.y coordinate system
>>>>>>>> Tier because there are multiple tiers, levels of resolution.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> If you look at it closer:
>>>>>>>> - To programmers there's a quadtree implementation
>>>>>>>> - To web users who use maps these are grids / tiles.
>>>>>>>> - To GIS experts this is a form of multi-resolution raster-ing.
>>>>>>>> - To astrophysicists these are tiers.
>>>>>>>> - To the MS folks I've talked to they have quad something or =
other.
>>>>>>>> - To math folks Cartesian levels makes sense.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Can't make all the people happy all the time,
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Right, but as far as I can tell (and I've only done, say an hour =
of
>>>>>>> research), I can't find anyone who calls them Cartesian Tiers =
other
>>>>> than us.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Personally, I think web users are the largest group (after all,
>> aren't
>>>>> we
>>>>>>> all web users?) out there and therefore will be the most =
familiar
>> with
>>>>>>> either grid or tile.  FWIW, I have tentatively called the Solr
>>>>> FieldType to
>>>>>>> support this "SpatialTileField" as in it represents a tile in =
the
>>>>> spatial
>>>>>>> sense.  I'd be fine with SpatialGridField as well (GridField =
seems a
>>>>> bit too
>>>>>>> generic).
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> WWW:   =
http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/<http://sunset.usc.edu/%7Emattmann/>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20

--------------------------
Grant Ingersoll
http://www.lucidimagination.com/

Search the Lucene ecosystem using Solr/Lucene: =
http://www.lucidimagination.com/search