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From Grant Ingersoll <gsing...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [spatial] Cartesian "Tiers" nomenclature
Date Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:50:28 GMT

On Dec 29, 2009, at 2:49 AM, patrick o'leary wrote:
> Doc's about it exist on gissearch.com
> dzone are doing articles on it
> http://java.dzone.com/articles/spatial-search-hibernate?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+javalobby%2Ffrontpage+%28Javalobby+%2F+Java+Zone%29
> 
> Locallucene in google has over 8,000 results
> http://www.google.com/search?q=locallucene
> 
> Localsolr has over 4,000 results
> http://www.google.com/search?q=localsolr
> 

Like I said earlier, they are all self referential.  Find me a link that mentions Cartesian
Tier that isn't also talking about Local Lucene/Solr.  That, of course, is valuable in that
some people have already been trained on it.   However, now that spatial is a part of Lucene/Solr,
I think it's valuable to make sure we are using the terminology that most people are familiar
with, not just those who have used LocalLucene/Solr.

> I've seen and help with installations all over the place, heck even codehaus
> use it, as do folks on github with geonames db.
> I see named it mathematically & scientifically correct, and  gaining enough
> traction and popularity to start becoming part of the standard, not just
> duplicating one.

But aren't they calling it that b/c LocalLucene called it that?  Not saying that makes it
wrong, I just want to call it what the majority of other people call it so that we can take
advantage of and attract more people to contribute and maintain it.  Perhaps there is no standard,
which makes it moot, but the fact that I've seen a number of people call it tiles or grids
at much larger sites than Lucene makes me think those are better names, not too mention nearly
everyone else on this thread.  


> 
> I can't honestly see how a refactoring is bringing anything positive to
> this, when there isn't a good standard out there yet.
> 

It's not about a standard, b/c as you say it doesn't exist.  It's about what most people are
going to be familiar with.

> 
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) <
> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Patrick,
>> 
>> Interesting. It seems like there is a precedent already in the Local Lucene
>> and Local SOLR packages that define "CartesianTier" as lingua franca.
>> 
>> Like I said in an earlier email it depends on who you talk to regarding the
>> preference of what to call these Tiles/Grids/Tiers, etc., and that seems to
>> be further evidenced by your research.
>> 
>> I for one donĀ¹t really have a preference but precedent matters to me and if
>> Tiers have been used to date then there should be strong consideration to
>> use that nomenclature and +1 from me.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> 
>> On 12/28/09 9:25 PM, "patrick o'leary" <pjaol@pjaol.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> So trying no to drag this out, the most frequent generic term used in GIS
>>> software is SRID
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRID
>>> 
>>> Again this provides just a basic nomenclature for the high level element,
>>> somewhat the blackbird of objects rather than the defining the magpie
>> (sorry
>>> for the CS 101 reference)
>>> 
>>> But it should show that every implementation is unique in some format.
>>> Perhaps as unique as CartesianTier's ( sorry Ted ! )
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, patrick o'leary <pjaol@pjaol.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hmm, depends, tiles indicate to me a direct correlation between the id
>> and
>>>> a map tile, which will depend upon using the right projection
>>>> with the cartesian plotter
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Grant Ingersoll <gsingers@apache.org
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 28, 2009, at 4:19 PM, patrick o'leary wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hmm, but when you say grid, to me that's just a bunch of regularly
>>>>> spaced
>>>>>> lines..
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah, I hear you.  I chose spatial tiles for the Solr patch, but
>> spatial
>>>>> grid would work too.  Or map tiles/map grids.  That anchors it into the
>>>>> spatial world, since we're calling Lucene's spatial contrib/spatial and
>>>>> Solr's Solr Spatial.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Grant Ingersoll <gsingers@apache.org
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:51 PM, patrick o'leary wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So Grant here's the deal behind the name.
>>>>>>>> Cartesian because it's a simple x.y coordinate system
>>>>>>>> Tier because there are multiple tiers, levels of resolution.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you look at it closer:
>>>>>>>> - To programmers there's a quadtree implementation
>>>>>>>> - To web users who use maps these are grids / tiles.
>>>>>>>> - To GIS experts this is a form of multi-resolution raster-ing.
>>>>>>>> - To astrophysicists these are tiers.
>>>>>>>> - To the MS folks I've talked to they have quad something
or other.
>>>>>>>> - To math folks Cartesian levels makes sense.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Can't make all the people happy all the time,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Right, but as far as I can tell (and I've only done, say an hour
of
>>>>>>> research), I can't find anyone who calls them Cartesian Tiers
other
>>>>> than us.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Personally, I think web users are the largest group (after all,
>> aren't
>>>>> we
>>>>>>> all web users?) out there and therefore will be the most familiar
>> with
>>>>>>> either grid or tile.  FWIW, I have tentatively called the Solr
>>>>> FieldType to
>>>>>>> support this "SpatialTileField" as in it represents a tile in
the
>>>>> spatial
>>>>>>> sense.  I'd be fine with SpatialGridField as well (GridField
seems a
>>>>> bit too
>>>>>>> generic).
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/<http://sunset.usc.edu/%7Emattmann/>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> 
>> 
>> 

--------------------------
Grant Ingersoll
http://www.lucidimagination.com/

Search the Lucene ecosystem using Solr/Lucene: http://www.lucidimagination.com/search


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