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From Simon Willnauer <simon.willna...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: FuzzyQuery vs SlowFuzsyQuery docs? -- was: Re: [jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-2667) Fix FuzzyQuery's defaults, so its fast.
Date Sat, 10 Nov 2012 21:28:24 GMT
On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Mark Bennett <mbennett@ideaeng.com> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> Not expecting to change minds, but found Robert's last email helpful, so
> wanted to try one more round.
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Robert Muir <rcmuir@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>> This is some analysis chain configuration issue.
>
>
> Interesting, so you would expect that the seed term *would* go through
> analysis before it finds the variants in the index?  If it's supposed to
> work that way then I can recheck my config.  (it wasn't just lowercase, that
> was just an example)
>
>>
>> If it doesn't work with 100M documents, i don't want it in lucene.
>
>
> Ah, this is very illuminating.  For scalability, big data, etc, that
> certainly makes sense.
>
> But there are many important Intranet search applications that have far less
> than 100M docs, but still need the fine-grained control of solr/lucene.
> Intranet projects in the 35k to 2M doc range often have even more precise
> indexing, filtering and faceting requirements, and solr/lucene provides that
> fine blade.
>
> Wouldn't it be more constructive to pick some number, say 100M, and give
> that the "big data" moniker.  Then, perhaps for things are not that
> scalable, have some separate area/label but still retain them.  Discarding
> all use cases < 100M seems draconian.


Mark, this was really an arbitrary number though. The problem with old
fuzzy is that it's already unusable once you cross the 32k unique
terms in a field. and that is far below "big data" We should not give
the impression that this stuff can work for you but shoots you in the
foot at any time.

just my $0.02

simon
>
>
>>
>>
>> I would have the same opinion if someone wanted unscalable solutions
>> for scoring w/ language models (e.g. not happy with smoothing for
>> unknown probabilities), or if someone claimed that spatial queries
>> should do slow things because they don't currently support
>> interplanetary distances, and so on.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Mark Bennett <mbennett@ideaeng.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Robert,
>> >
>> > I acknowledge your "-1" vote, and I'm guessing that your objection is
>> > maybe
>> > 70% "scalability", and only 30% use-case?
>> >
>> > The older Levenstein stuff has been around for a long time, scalable or
>> > not,
>> > and already in real systems.
>> >
>> > You seem to have a very "binary" on code being "in" or "out".  Is there
>> > any
>> > room in your world-view of code for "gray code", unsupported, incubator,
>> > what-have-you?  Maybe analagous to people who jailbreak their iPhones or
>> > something?
>> >
>> > You're an important part of the community, and working at Lucid, etc.,
>> > and
>> > clearly concerned about software quality.  When smart folks like you
>> > have
>> > such sharp opinions I do try to ponder them against my own
>> > circumstances.
>> >
>> > And on the quality of the old code, was it just the scalability, or were
>> > there other concerns such as stability, coding style, or possibly
>> > inconsistent results?
>> >
>> > Isn't the sandbox and admonished reference in Java docs sufficient?
>> >
>> > I'm harping on this because I'm really between a rock and hard place,
>> > and
>> > also posted another question.
>> >
>> > Just trying to understand your very strong opinions, and I thank you for
>> > your patience in this matter.  This issue is either going to fix or
>> > break my
>> > weekend / next-deliverble.
>> >
>> > Sincere thanks,
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Mark Bennett / New Idea Engineering, Inc. / mbennett@ideaeng.com
>> > Direct: 408-733-0387 / Main: 866-IDEA-ENG / Cell: 408-829-6513
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Robert Muir <rcmuir@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I'm -1 for having unscalable shit in lucene's core. This query should
>> >> have never been added.
>> >>
>> >> I don't care if a few people complain because they aren't using
>> >> lowercasefilter or some other insanity. Fix your analysis chain. I
>> >> don't have any sympathy.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Jack Krupansky
>> >> <jack@basetechnology.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > +1 for permitting a choice of fuzzy query implementation.
>> >> >
>> >> > I agree that we want a super-fast fuzzy query for simple variations,
>> >> > but
>> >> > I
>> >> > also agree that we should have the option to trade off speed for
>> >> > function.
>> >> >
>> >> > But I am also sympathetic to assuring that any core Lucene features
>> >> > be
>> >> > as
>> >> > performant as possible.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ultimately, if there was a single fuzzy query implementation that did
>> >> > everything for everybody all of the time, that would be the way to
>> >> > go,
>> >> > but
>> >> > if choices need to be made to satisfy competing goals, we should
>> >> > support
>> >> > going that route.
>> >> >
>> >> > -- Jack Krupansky
>> >> >
>> >> > From: Mark Bennett
>> >> > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 3:48 PM
>> >> > To: dev@lucene.apache.org
>> >> > Subject: Re: FuzzyQuery vs SlowFuzsyQuery docs? -- was: Re: [jira]
>> >> > [Commented] (LUCENE-2667) Fix FuzzyQuery's defaults, so its fast.
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi Robert,
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Robert Muir <rcmuir@gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> ... I'm strongly against having this
>> >> >> unscalable garbage in lucene's core.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There is no use case for ed > 2, thats just crazy.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I promise you there ARE use cases for edit distances > 2, especially
>> >> > with
>> >> > longer words.  Due to NDA I can't go into details.
>> >> >
>> >> > Also ed>2 can be useful when COMBINING that low-quality part of
the
>> >> > search
>> >> > with other sub-queries, or additional business rules.  Maybe instead
>> >> > of
>> >> > boiling an ocean this lets you just boil the sea.  ;-)
>> >> >
>> >> > I won't comment on the quality of the older Levenstein code, or the
>> >> > likely
>> >> > very slow performance, nor where the code should live, etc.
>> >> >
>> >> > But your statement about "no use case for ed > 2" is simply not
true.
>> >> > (whether you'd agree with any of them or not is certainly another
>> >> > matter)
>> >> >
>> >> > I understand your concerns about not having it be the default.  (or
>> >> > maybe
>> >> > having a giant warning message or something, whatever)
>> >> >
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> lucidworks.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
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>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >
>>
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>

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