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From Michael McCandless <>
Subject Re: modularization discussion
Date Sat, 07 May 2011 10:46:08 GMT
I agree!  And I think you're saying the same thing as Grant.

Ie, others are fully free to refactor stuff, as long as they don't
hurt Solr/Lucene (functionality, performance).

But you are tempering that with a nice dose of reality (successfully
factoring out faceting will be insanely hard).

I very much agree with that.

And, I (and other refactor-itchers) very much want to hear the
specific technical skepticism/concerns on a given module: that
assessment is awesome and very useful.  In fact, I love your
enumeration of how faceting is so well integrated into Solr so much
that I'll go open an issue (to factor out faceting), and put your list

I think this will mean, in practice, that the refactoring should
itself proceed in baby steps.  Ie, birthing a new faceting module,
iterating on it, etc., and then at some point cutting Solr over to it,
are two events likely spread out substantially in time.

Freedom to refactor/poach is the bread and butter of open source.


On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Chris Hostetter
<> wrote:
> : To me, the third camp is just saying the proof is in the pudding.  If
> : you want to refactor, then go for it.  Just make sure everything still
> : works, which of course I know people will (but part of that means
> : actually running Solr, IMO).  Perhaps, more importantly don't get mad
> : that if I have only one day a week to work on Lucene/Solr that I spend
> : it putting a specific feature in a specific place.  Just because
> : something can/should be modularized, doesn't mean that a person working
> : in that area must do it before they add whatever they were working on.
> : For instance, if and when function queries are a module, I will add to
> : them there and be happy to do so.  In the meantime, I will likely add to
> : them in Solr if that is something I happen to be interested in at that
> : time b/c I can certainly add a new function in a day, but I can't
> : refactor the whole module _and_ add my new function in a day.
> +1
> I want to get that printed on a t-shirt
> the corrolarry issue in my mind...
> I am happily in favor of code reuse and modularization in the abstract,
> and when it works in practice i'm plesantly delighted.
> But when people talk about modularization as a goal, and make a laundry
> list things in solr that people think should be refactored into modules
> (w/o showing specifics of what that module would look like) then i have a
> hard time buying into some of these ideas panning out in a way that:
>  a) is a useful module to people in and of itself
>  b) doesn't hamstring the evolution/performance in solr.
> To look at "faceting" as a concrete example, there are big the reasons
> faceting works so well in Solr: Solr has total control over the
> index, knows exactly when the index has changed to rebuild caches, has a
> strict schema so it can make sense of field types and
> pick faceting algos accordingly, has multi-phase distributed search
> approach to get exact counts efficiently across multiple shards, etc...
> (and there are still a lot of additional enhancements and improvements
> that can be made to take even more advantage of knowledge solr has because
> it "owns" the index that we no one has had time to tackle)
> I find it really hard to picture a way that this code could be refactored
> into a reusable module in such a way that it could have an API that would
> be easily usable outside of Solr -- and when i do get a glimmer of an
> inkling of what that might look like, that vision scares me because of how
> that API might then "hobble" Solr's ability to leverage it's total control
> of the underlying index to add additional performance/features.
> To be crystal clear: I recognize that this is *my* hangup -- I am not
> suggesting that "I am short sighted and have little imagination
> therefore this code should never be modularized."
> I'm trying to explain why i *personally* am hesitant and sceptical of how
> well modularizations of features like like this might actually work in
> practice, and why i'm not eager to jump in and contribute on a goal whose
> end result is something that i can't fully picture (and when i can picture
> it, i'm a little scared by what i see)
> That doesn't mean i'm opposed to it happening -- i would love to live in
> the land of candy where houses are made of ginger bread and sugar plums
> grow on trees, I'm just too skeptical that such a land exists (or is as
> great as legend describes) to go slogging along on an epic journey to try
> and reach it -- i'm too old for that shit.
> I'm certainly not going to stop anyone else fro going on that quest -- but
> i am entitled to voice my skepticism and concerns, just as adventursome
> folks are entitled to ignore me.
> -Hoss
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